Gay Discrimination

[Slo_fuzz]

This is getting pathetic...woah, I was afraid, scratch that, petrified of snakes until I was educated, and now I love them and they play a huge part in my daily life now. Maybe all of the homophobes need to get an education, fancy that, opening up and using their brains. Maybe then they will see we are all people FIRST. all deserving of the same rights, no question. This isnt a grey issue.

 

[mje772003]

Alot of people have the impression that gay couples all want to raise kids, not everyone wants to lead that path. But gay marriage should be allowed for the same reasons as hetro couples to signify a commitment and celebration of love between 2 people and shouldn't be judged by anyone.

As Christians have many things that are so misconstrued in their dogma that breeds a society of hate and intolerance to anything that doesn't the mould of their beliefs. The bible does show that Christians should be tolerant and forgiving and not judgmental, but society has changed this or turn a blind eye to such beliefs.

Things like " turn the other cheek" and "he how is without sin cast the first stone" are in the bible but Christians and other similar religions over look this as it doesn't meet their values. I should know as i was bought up the Christian way but now have my own spiritual beliefs.

 

[kawasakirider]

You guys are ALL validating my point.

Kids ARE cruel. Kids CAN be picked on for being fat, or for NO reason at all. Giving other kids a reason to pick on your child is different to your child being picked on for something you can't control. You CAN'T control if other people think your kid is dog ugly, YOU CAN control whether or not you put a child in a situation where it has to defend why his parents are homosexual.

No one can control whether or not a child is born and its looks are percieved in a negative light due to societal pressures and stigmas, but it's a fact that a child will be picked on for having homosexual parents.

You guys are forgetting that unless there is a strong reason to hold on, bullies will move onto other targets. Everyone gets bullied, but it's the minority that suffer relentlessly all through their school lives.

 

[Recharge]

You guys are ALL validating my point.

Kids ARE cruel. Kids CAN be picked on for being fat, or for NO reason at all. Giving other kids a reason to pick on your child is different to your child being picked on for something you can't control. You CAN'T control if other people think your kid is dog ugly, YOU CAN control whether or not you put a child in a situation where it has to defend why his parents are homosexual.

No one can control whether or not a child is born and its looks are percieved in a negative light due to societal pressures and stigmas, but it's a fact that a child will be picked on for having homosexual parents.

You guys are forgetting that unless there is a strong reason to hold on, bullies will move onto other targets. Everyone gets bullied, but it's the minority that suffer relentlessly all through their school lives.

I still don't see how you can separate gay parents out as the ones who shouldn't be parents under this light? all parents have this choice, because almost all children will be picked on for things they can control, you could not have children, you could home school them, you could form your own little hypocritical enclave if you wish.
why should gay parents be segregated in this way?
if this were the case, most of humanity wouldn't exist! because at one time or other, they were under some form of similar exclusion.
women wouldn't be able to vote, aboriginals either, or have their children removed "for their own good" in every country, there has been some religious or political or social reason that some class or type of people were or are still hounded because of the way they are.

should muslims be disallowed to have children because they'll be picked on at the current time?
it's a choice after all.. the Chinese when they came during the gold rush and treated (and thought of) as virtual slave labour? your belief as it stands can validly and easily spread out to other people.

 

[HydroGoat]

No we're saying that kids will be picked on regardless, so why shouldn't gay parents be allowed children?

 

[kawasakirider]

Of course kids will be picked on, but your average kid won't be bullied to the point that one would if they had gay parents. You guys don't know the effect relentless torment can have on a person. Everyone gets picked on, I'm not talking about being picked on. I'm talking about being subjected to mental anguish and segregation that no child should have to feel.

Read kaotikjeztas post. It completely validates my point.

Someone mentioned home schooling, that would be the best option I reckon. Atleast until the kid is old enough to keep things to themselves if they wished, and was old enough to comprehend the reactions they'd have to put up with.

 

[giglamesh]

if people tease you for whatever reason just walk a few steps in casey hains's shoes and power bomb them

 

[HydroGoat]

I have a friend who has two mums, she's a vegetarian and a bit of a hippie. Huge potential for bullying there.

She barely gets any crap at all!

EDIT:

You guys don't know the effect relentless torment can have on a person.

Oh really? I've been bullied from when I was 4 or 5ish, all the way through to year 12 when it finally stopped. Pretty much constant, I moved school twice during that time and it continued. So don't tell me I don't know.

 

[Recharge]

Of course kids will be picked on, but your average kid won't be bullied to the point that one would if they had gay parents. You guys don't know the effect relentless torment can have on a person. Everyone gets picked on, I'm not talking about being picked on. I'm talking about being subjected to mental anguish and segregation that no child should have to feel.

but they ARE, every day across the country. did you see the media attention of casey? the fat kid who was caught on video by bullies?
he tells of being hounded every single day of almost his entire school life!
and that had NOTHING to do with having gay parents, you simply don't KNOW how many kids are picked on and to what extent, you just believe you do.

I think it comes down to your own fear of what you think will or does happen, but you, yourself don't have any idea, hell, I was picked on and segregated almost my entire school life too, I was at the point i pulled a knife on another kid because I was so sick of it after years and years of it, and the reason? I was skinny and deemed a non threat and I didn't play sport. (no I never hurt him, but the bullying still continued, but it sure lessened because they THOUGH I might snap.)

 

[Crystal..Discus]

THAT'S ENOUGH.

I had made the assumption (correctly, apparently) that you had been bullied and for that reason you didn't feel it was right to give the same type of kids who harassed you ammunition to pick on someone else. Lashing out and saying that nobody else knows your pain is just childish and completely uncalled for.

Does giving a child a home, and ACTUAL home, with two loving parents who'll bring them up the same way any mother/father couple could, really outweigh being in the foster system? A system designed so poorly that social workers and children turn to drugs/alcohol/death just to cope?

Does denying two people who love each other the opportunity to start their own family make such a SIGNIFICANT difference in the world that's it's life-altering for 95% of the populace?

Grow the hell up.

 

[kawasakirider]

You're a champion crystal, a really intelligent being. It wasn't hard for anyone to make those assumptions from my posts. Doesn't change anything.

Don't tell me enough, either. You're not my mother.

Lashing out and saying that nobody else knows your pain is just childish.

Also, please point out to me where I said no one knows my pain? Maybe you should read before making posts.

 

[Elapidae1]

I no longer feel my arguments are valid enough to deny the rights of gay couples access to the same parenting rights and accesses to adoption etc as hetero couples. I do still have this inkling in my mind though that it just isn't right, I guess that can only be explained as ingrained prejudice showing through, I can't fault the logic in some peoples supporting arguments.

I hope you are all one day (soon) given the opportunity to decide for yourselves whether or not you will be parents. In the meantime I'll stick to trying to make the correct decisions for my family. I guess the same as any other parent regardless of sexuality i'll wait till my daughter is grown up and taking responsibility for her own life before I judge myself on whether I made the correct choices. Who am I to judge others before they've even been given the opportunity to make theirs?

 

[Recharge]

Mate I have been to HELL and BACK. I do know what it's like. I'd say that I was hounded worse than anyone could be, regardless of their parents sexual orientation. I have wanted to end it, but I have a fear of death.... I just wished I could go to sleep and never wake up. I am a VERY different person for it now. So don't tell me I don't have any ****ing idea you *******.

worse than anyone could be? ANYONE? no, and a lot of us went through hell, that doesn't give you the right to stand judge and jury over all else.
Not the adults and not the children that would take a family and stable home life for a little hell any day of the year, some have NEVER known parental love at ALL.
I'm sorry you had a hard time, I'm sorry I had a hard time, and everyone else who had a hard time, but this is LIFE, it's not easy, not ever, even the most spoiled brat has a hard life at some point, life is adversity, life is being able to grow beyond the hell and hard and the down right horrible and then stand as an adult and do better for yourself and the future generations (for the best of us) some fail, some get half way, but it's never, EVER easy.
you're not the only one who had wished for death at least a couple of times, or even tried for it, but life is a battle of the strong to survive, then to overcome if they can and do better if they can.
those who try to make it worse for someone else in the misguided belief they're helping in some perverse way have not succeeded.
stopping gays from being parents (which you can't anyway, there are always ways) does nothing what so ever to improve the situation, it just makes the journey for equality longer and harder.
and all you do is stop some kid from having a family and a house and being loved.

 

[Crystal..Discus]

I'm not your mother, but I sure as hell know a lot more than you do. You lashed out and abused another member for what? Telling you that you don't know what torment is? You've explicitly stated throughout this thread that you make assumptions based on meditation.

My assumption is, is that you're too emotionally stunted to really have any type of logical place in this argument. You use your history as a basis for denying other people the right to have children. You're too immature to really grasp what it is you're saying.

I didn't have to read it in your posts, it's a plain as day that you think you're special. That the way you were treated is somehow different. Everyone else has scars from childhood, what make yours so special?

 

[notechistiger]

You said it right here. Wasn't said word-for-word but was certainly implied.

You guys don't know the effect relentless torment can have on a person.

It's amusing you think two loving gay parents don't deserve to bring up kids due to the possibility they'll be picked on in school. The violence and drugs that are prominent in many adoption systems are much better, yeah?

What a sad, sad view of the world you have.

 

[kawasakirider]

I'm not asking you to be sorry mate. Everyone goes through hard times. It just seems to me those hard times would be created or exacerbated in a situation like this. I'm glad what happened to me happened, it made me stronger.

I'm not your mother, but I sure as hell know a lot more than you do. You lashed out and abused another member for what? Telling you that you don't know what torment is? You've explicitly stated throughout this thread that you make assumptions based on meditation.

My assumption is, is that you're too emotionally stunted to really have any type of logical place in this argument. You use your history as a basis for denying other people the right to have children. You're too immature to really grasp what it is you're saying.

I didn't have to read it in your posts, it's a plain as day that you think you're special. That the way you were treated is somehow different. Everyone else has scars from childhood, what make yours so special?

Yeah you nailed it. I am special.

If I have offended any gay person I apologise. For the record I have gay friends.

 

[Recharge]

they wouldn't, not any more than already is for any number or reasons.
you have personal bias, for what ever reason, even if it's personal knowledge or experience, that's just your story, not even enough to make any kind of informed decision on.

it's akin to a rape victim calling for all men to be put into chastity belts because of their experience with one man.

there are statistics, there are studies done all over the world, that state unequivocally that there is no more risk than any other child in any way.

would your gay friends support your belief though? have you even brought the subject up with them?

 

[Smithers]

If I have offended any gay person I apologise. For the record I have gay friends.

Out of curiosity Trent do you talk to them about this subject and if so what are their responses to your views?

 

[kawasakirider]

I'm only 19. My gay friends (granted there aren't many) haven't thought about children.... Well, to be honest I don't know for sure if they have, I'm just assuming because they are young. So honestly, I don't know how they'd feel.

I don't understand (yet) the desire to have children, so I don't know how hard it would feel, I'd assume it would be worse than anything I've ever yearned for.

I also believe that the best way to tackle it would be to home school the child until it's old enough to make its own choices in regards to tackling the publics reception of their situation. I don't have a problem with that at all.

Again, if I have offended any gay people, I apologise.

 

[Jay84]

The same goes for EVERY sort of person. You make out like I'm targeting homosexuals entirely. If someone can't afford a child, don't have the bloody thing... If someone is a drug addict, don't have a damn child... If someone knows that their child will be ridiculed to the point of no return just because of who his parents are, they should seriously reconsider a child.

Should red heads not have children then? Should midgets be banned from having kids?