Just Discovered A Bad Side To The Hobby . . .

Discussion in 'General Reptile Discussion' started by Nero Egernia, Dec 2, 2016.

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  1. Nero Egernia

    Nero Egernia Subscriber Subscriber

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    I haven't been in the hobby too long, but just recently I discovered a bad side. I'm not sure what other people's views are but to me it wasn't particular pleasant. Too often I see people only interested in the brightest, most unusual colours or structural morphs out there that will collect the most money. So-called plain old wild types or animals with natural earthly tones or with low contrast seem to be regarded as literal garbage, and apparently only poor, uneducated newbies would ever be interested in them. Even animals from particular locales are simply seen as dull and boring in comparison to the more popular locales. I know people have different preferences and that's fine, but surely unusual bright colours and patterns isn't all that is governing the hobby today? I admit that there are some stunning morphs out there, but for me a portion of my collection was purely selected because I found them interesting and they were closer to home in a way, and because that's what I remember growing up with.

    Rant aside, the fact that wild-type animals are often regarded as garbage bothers me the most. Isn't it from within the wild is where we fell in love with reptiles? What's everyone's reasons for having a particular species/locale/colour in their collection?
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2016
  2. pythoninfinite

    pythoninfinite Subscriber Subscriber

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    You're in WA I believe Oshkii? I'm from WA originally, and the ban on importing pythons has at least protected you from the crap crossbreeding and morph philosophies which exist over here. Have a look at Facebook to see how those breeding the ugliest snakes get the biggest accolades from their mates. The search for something "different" is almost an obsession in some quarters here in the east, and some of the animals they produce are, frankly, very ugly. These are people who have never seen a snake in the wild, and if they did, they'd just think "how plain and boring." Because a Carpet can produce 15-30 eggs in a clutch, and maybe two or three in that clutch are regarded as exceptional, I'm curious to know what happens to the large numbers of bubs considered sub-par by these breeders. Freezing comes to mind...

    Jamie
     
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  3. Stompsy

    Stompsy Subscriber Subscriber

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    I find most people I interact with, who are involved in the herp hobby, are akin to a 15 year old in a school yard. There's so much arrogance and people seem to only care about being glorified by having the most 'interesting' reptile. It bugs me to no end! I've even had a guy roll his eyes at me when I suggested he take on a few pink tongue skinks that he couldn't shift, as if to imply that his collection was much better than that! It saddens me to see that the hobby is taking this path..... but unfortunately, it really doesn't surprise me at all.
     
  4. Iguana

    Iguana Well-Known Member

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    Reminds me of the Ball python market in the USA, you don't hear of anyone with just a normal wild type, it's always "super het ghost marble axanthic cross piebald lesser banana" lol
    I agree with all of you, I've only been apart of the 'hobby' for 3-4 years, but i've seen how wild types are just thrown away, nobody wants them, they only want the insane color ones. Which I admit are beautiful, but I think to go back to the wild type snakes would be a great move. Whenever I speak to an american herp keeper they always mention how beautiful our wild type snakes are, I don't think we appreciate them enough.
     
  5. Pauls_Pythons

    Pauls_Pythons Power Seller Power Seller

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    This has always been in the hobby and always will, it happens with everything that man gets involved with.
    I remember when I got my first captive bred snake in the UK 30 odd years ago it was a wild type Burmese. (Albino's hadn't even become commercial then). If you were breeding Burms in the UK now they would probably be seen as food for a BHP.

    While most of us can see the beauty in the wild type some will only see the monetary value in a jag/albino/tri colour super banana etc.
    I do have colour morphs in my collection but also have wild type. Treat them all the same, none are seen as being more important or valuable & we will keep them all till the day they die.
     
  6. Wally

    Wally Subscriber Subscriber Power Seller

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    The short answer to your question Oshkii is that these days the love affair begins for many people when they see that unbelievably coloured & patterned reptile in a shop or online.

    Before that moment they may have had only a passing interest in reptiles.

    It is what it is now and there's no turning back. I've learnt to accept that each to their own.
     
  7. pinefamily

    pinefamily Subscriber Subscriber

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    I agree with you Oshkiii. It is sad to see the morphs take precedence. As stated above, money unfortunately becomes a factor for some, seeing it as a an easy earner.
    However, I feel the wheel is turning a bit. It seems the hobby is a little on the decline; whether that's because of external factors (the economic uncertainty we face), or whether because of a glut in the market, I don't know. Things do cycle, so maybe pure types will become popular again. Jags seem to have declined in popularity, thankfully IMO.
    We probably will always have that section of the market that wants the fancy colour or morph, just like some people want that fancy car, or the biggest diamond ring.
     
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  8. dragonlover1

    dragonlover1 Subscriber Subscriber

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    I agree with most of whats been said here but I must admit I am trying to improve the colour retention of Pygmy Bearded Dragons.
    These little guys seem to have a bit of colour when hatched but fade to grey fairly quickly
     
  9. icuucme2

    icuucme2 Active Member

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    feel free to send me your ugly snakes I will take them lol I love snakes not the way it looks don't get me wrong I love the prettiness of some but I also love the ugly, ugliness is only in the eyes of the beholder.
     
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  10. pinefamily

    pinefamily Subscriber Subscriber

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    Rick, what you are doing is different to these cowboys breeding for fancy morphs etc. As long as you don't come up with a pygmy silkback, lol.
     
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  11. Nero Egernia

    Nero Egernia Subscriber Subscriber

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    Yeah, that's right. While there's no crossbreeding in Western Australia there does seem to be a race to catch up with the East when it comes to morphs. Many of the locales I would like to have in my collection appear to be regarded as dull so it's actually quite hard to source them when there's a growing surge in the high contrast brightly coloured critters. I don't know about others but I always get a thrill seeing reptiles in the wild, even if they are "plain and boring".

    It makes me wonder if the wild type Ball Python even exists in captivity over in the USA? I don't really pay attention to their crazy colours, but what I do know is that there's a lot of them and most of them have confusing names. I see some people in Australia appear to be taking on the flavour of the USA. Some people have been naming their Bearded Dragons under the USA titles of "Sunburst" or whatever other names they're called. I would simply just call them a high yellow. Much easier to remember.

    That's a great attitude Pauls_Pythons. I don't have any pythons but I do have a few books and whenever friends look at the pictures they always love the Jags and Albinos.

    I always thought that most people's love affairs with reptiles came from a very young age, of catching small reptiles and frogs and keeping them in containers filled with grass and sticks. Mine was something like that at least.
     
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  12. kittycat17

    kittycat17 Well-Known Member

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    It's great to hear other like minded people in the hobby :)
    As colourful as jags etc are I can't help but thinking about how well they would cope in the wild.
    Personally I'm sticking to my coastals and love the variety you can get out of a single clutch :)
    I was very impressed when my locale pet store that stocks reptiles told me they where no longer keeping and selling jaguars as it wasn't something they wanted to encourage first time keepers to have.
     
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  13. nick_75

    nick_75 Active Member

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    Hi, I feel your pain and frustration. I have been in this hobby for many years, way before all of the super het etc etc etc. and I miss those days. Animals were celebrated in their natural form. I find the new attitude to breeding designers most frustrating when I am looking to buy a new animal and have to wade through all of the designer animal adds to find the pure locals. I got into the hobby through a love of science and an interest in native animals, I feel that the owners and breeders of designer animals do not have a love of science (other than genetics). The interest is commerce for breeders and the bling factor for keepers.
     
  14. dragonlover1

    dragonlover1 Subscriber Subscriber

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    Definitely NOT,Darren.I really don't like silkbacks,I want my dragons to look like dragons not skinks.
     
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  15. pinefamily

    pinefamily Subscriber Subscriber

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    I know that mate. Just stirring. :)
     
  16. princessparrot

    princessparrot Very Well-Known Member

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    I actually quite prefer the more plain normal/natural coloured animals like childrens, olives, womas, shinglebacks,ect. Really the only "fancy" one I quite like and probably prefer to than normals are albino darwins... Other than that not much of a fan of mutations...
     
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  17. Nero Egernia

    Nero Egernia Subscriber Subscriber

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    It seems that some people don't even know of, or care about locales. I was once looking at a reptile and I asked the seller if they knew the locale of the animal. It appeared that they thought I was some kind of idiot for even asking, as apparently, if it's pretty with "cool" patterns and colours who even cares about its origins?
     
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  18. eipper

    eipper Very Well-Known Member APS Veteran

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    This is a hobby when you can have your cake and eat it too.

    I love wild types/ localities/ esu's but can appreciate morphs and even hybrids.

    Reptiles are only worth what people are willing to pay. Don't believe the self inflated prices as an indication of worth.

    Also too remember that that expensive animals does not equate to experienced keepers. Plenty of people "buy their reputation" by owning expensive, sought after species and equally their are a number of very experienced keepers with common species only as that is what they like.

    Which brings me back to the original sentiment of keep what YOU want and don't worry about SOMEONE ELSE.

    Cheers
     
  19. jase13

    jase13 New Member

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    I agree guys. This is my first comment on a forumso excuse me if im doin it wrong. But i got into reptiles because i was scared of snakes,so i wanted to overcome my fears. I love the natural colours of all reptiles, sure the occasional morph is nice here and there. Look at stimson pythons, or tiger snakes, the difference u can get in 1 snake based on locale makes me wonder why u would bother trying to make snakes that become so riddled with problems due to crossbreeding and inbreeding to get a fancy colour!
     
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  20. Smittiferous

    Smittiferous Subscriber Subscriber

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    You know @Oshkii from what You've posted from your own collection I'd say all your animals are stunning!

    Personally I've only met a handful of individuals involved in the hobby in any way who I haven't recoiled at for some reason or another, most of those reasons stated above. I get that not everyone is interested in everything (I like monitors and some dragons personally) and by no means should they have to be, but there's plenty of piss-poor attitudes across the board. Each to their own but I don't have time for many, and would go out of my way for fewer still.
     
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