New: Advice and ideas for a snake would be appreciated!

[Flaviemys purvisi]

This came up when I was looking for the info about what the chemical I was trying to remember. In reply to a similar comment to yours.

Yeah that's actually garbage about it being inactive in live fish... watch what happens to alligators when they eat shad, another species high in thiaminase enzymes... bye bye alligators...

 

[Bluetongue1]

My apologies Cris. I was being a bit too bloody minded about the use of chemicals. What I should have said is that when added to water in the dosages appropriate for fish, I cannot think of a specific chemical that would harm a snake.

You made a valid point about the possibility of bioaccumulation, which I had not considered directly. However I was going to make the point that it would not be wise to feed medicated fish to reptiles or other animals. So the snake etc. should be re-housed for the full duration of any treatments, allowing fish the time required to fully breakdown and/or excrete the active metabolites and for these to be removed from the water. Of course good husbandry can avoid all this in the first place.

 

[ShrimpKing]

From my own experiences owning a keelback, while it looks awesome with the snake and fish in the same tank, the snake always ends up eating the fish. If you don't mind that happening then go for it, just make sure to chose fish that would be safe for the snake to eat. Only way you'd probably get away with it is if the fish were large enough the snake does not see them as food, but not large enough that they could damage the snake in any way. Tiny fish can last for a while as well, but even in complex aquariums the snake typically ends up getting them in the end. With keelbacks it's really not a matter of if they will eat the fish, its a matter of when.

From the sounds of the sort of tank that you're aiming for a keelback is probably the best choice for you. If given the option they can and do climb pretty well, but most of the time they're either on the ground or swimming. For mine I would say a decent 70 plus % of his time is spent in the water. They aren't inherently difficult snakes to keep, give them a hot spot, water and food and they're fine. Hardest part with them is that they start tiny, can have a flighty personality and that coupled with being rather fast when scared would make them a challenge for people without experience with snakes. They also aren't the easiest snakes to come across for sale and there is not much around detailing their captive management. Ben Moore did a good article though in a scales and tails issue a couple of years a go and Scott Eipper's book "A complete guide to Australian snakes, elapid and colubrids" has an excellent section on them as well. Both of these sources of information potentially may be a bit of a challenge to track down though.

There are other species though for you to look into. A Macleay's water snake (Pseudoferania polyepis) or either of the file snakes (Acrochordus sp.) are other options for this style set up and are all interesting snakes in their own rights as they are predominantly aquatic. From what I've heard Macleay's do seem to like the availability of a branch to 'bask' on and get out of the water, but most of the time they're in the water. Again any of these species are going to be difficult to find for sale with little information out there on their care. That and these species may be more difficult animals to keep, but I don't have personal experience with any of them so I can't really comment.

Cheers, Cameron

Thanks for the info Cameron.
The Macleays seem to stay relatively small too, making them another POTENTIAL species to keep.

As for the fish, I would not mind if some/all were eaten. Hunting for live food, in my believe, is what all reptiles should have in a home enclosure (whether crickets, snails for Blueys or fish). The "natural" hunting behaviours are just fascinating to watch. That being said, free swimmers like Australian Smelt would be easy meals for any predator. Larger species of rainbowfish, if allowed to grow big enough, may likely be too big to be seen as a potential meal (but then wont grow too big to pose a threat to the snake). Many species of gudgeon (my first choice for native fish in this instance) are exceptional at evading predators. Being benthic in nature, many gudgeons survive with turtles, and while snakes hunt in a different way, I believe the gudgeons would thrive.

However, I am prepared for any and all of the fish to become potential meals (Marine Aquaria 101).

 

[pythoninfinite]

Most reptiles have a very poor long-term outcome when subjected to ultra high humidity for extended periods of time. Even Keelbacks move between various microhabitats within their range, dry and sunny to damp and frog infested, as they choose and depending on need. Access to damp conditions may also be seasonal. Small heated (either by water or substrate) enclosures make managing humidity levels very difficult unless there is excellent ventilation, which may, in turn, affect temperature control.

Jamie

 

[cris]

Most reptiles have a very poor long-term outcome when subjected to ultra high humidity for extended periods of time. Even Keelbacks move between various microhabitats within their range, dry and sunny to damp and frog infested, as they choose and depending on need. Access to damp conditions may also be seasonal. Small heated (either by water or substrate) enclosures make managing humidity levels very difficult unless there is excellent ventilation, which may, in turn, affect temperature control.

Jamie

Yeah good point, I touched on this but I probably should have covered this a bit better. In combination with basking light/s plenty of ventilation is required. Heating the water would be generally be a bad idea, however heating dry areas with a heat cord or similar is not a problem IMO. I have never had a problem using fishtanks with full top ventilation.

 

[Bluetongue1]

@ShrimpKing. The only two snakes on the R1 list that are potentially suited to the environment of the proposed enclosure are the Common Tree snake Dendrelaphis punctulatus & the Marsh snake Hemiapsis signata. Marsh snake are difficult to feed when small, given they normally eat lizards and frogs. A 50 cm specimen would require a minimum terrestrial area of 50 cm x 30cm according to the regs. So a CTS is your only realistic option. Being competence in aquarium management and experienced in turtle care, I reckon you’ll be fine with a CTS. You obviously understand researching a given animal in order to provide for its specific needs.

For the future, if you want a truly aquatic freshwater snake, then have a think about Macleay’s Water snake, as already mentioned. While its current name is Pseudoferania polylepis, as it has been reclassified, it is still listed as Enhydris polylepis). They are not commonly kept. Yet with the two I have seen in captivity, the owners both said they was no real difference to maintaining freshwater tropical fish. Just supply a dock or log for them to periodically crawl out on and bask if they want to do so. There is only one file snake on the lists, the Arafura (Acrohcordus arafurae), and it can get quite large (2m or more). The one I have seen in captivity died with no indication why, despite the huge tank it was in and the decades of successful reptile and turtle keeping experience of its owner.

 

[Flaviemys purvisi]

And... if the snake thing doesn't work out, there's some pretty gnarly freshwater eels you could get instead. I've a mate who has a pair of freshwater Moray eels - Gymnothorax polyuranodon from far north QLD. They are wicked looking.

 

[Bluetongue1]

What if the snake poops in the water? (I know mine do in their water bowl 90% of the time)....would that harm the fish or would the filtration take care of it?

Hi Snapped, I realise this question was already answered in brief. Here is the explanation I offered to post, which is aimed at providing a broader perspective. I was about to bin it, then thought well someone might find it useful.

Poop consists essentially of solid wastes (indigestible materials) and various nitrogen wastes, collectively called urates.
A simple hang-on aquarium filter these days does the following…
Physical Filtration: A fibre pad removes suspended solids. Needs periodic rinsing.
Biological Filtration: Provides a large surface area for growth of two species of nitrifying bacteria. One converts ammonia (very highly toxic) to nitrites (a lot less toxic. The other converts nitrites to nitrates (only toxic if allowed to build up).
Chemical Filtration: Activated carbon removes active chemicals that may be present. Usually only really required when establishing a new tank.
Water Circulation: Moves oxygen rich water from the surface throughout the aquarium.

Periodic vacuuming gets rid of the detritus from poop and the water change involved in this removes built-up nitrates if present. Water changes can also be done on their own.
Growing plants will take up ammonia and nitrates.
The other main water chemistry parameters that are relevant and can measured and adjusted if need be, are: acidity/alkalinity (pH); general hardness (GH – essentially the amount of dissolved calcium and magnesium); carbonate hardness (KH – the amount of dissolved carbonates).

 

[Snapped]

Thanks for that Bluetongue, a great explanation and easily understood. Wish I could of read that years ago when I had a freshwater tank with a single Oscar in it.
I remember the testing kit, glass tubes and all that. It seemed to be constant cleaning/water changes, for one fish it was a lot of poop. I commend anyone that has fish setups, it did my head in, haha. For me, it was more work than my cats and dogs!

 

[Flaviemys purvisi]

Thanks for that Bluetongue, a great explanation and easily understood. Wish I could of read that years ago when I had a freshwater tank with a single Oscar in it.
I remember the testing kit, glass tubes and all that. It seemed to be constant cleaning/water changes, for one fish it was a lot of poop. I commend anyone that has fish setups, it did my head in, haha. For me, it was more work than my cats and dogs!

If you think fish are messy try havin an indoor aquarium with a dozen turtles in it.

 

[Snapped]

Errr....nope, all good here hahaha.

 

[msnmsn]

semi aquatic...Keelback/freshwater snake would probs be your only option, they stay relatively small too. dunno if they're on the R1, but they're definitely a more active snake. is there any specific reason it has to be semi-aquatic?