Urgent Help Please: Mouth Problem

Discussion in 'Herp Help' started by markannab, Oct 24, 2014.

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  1. markannab

    markannab Active Member

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    Hi all

    My coastal has developed a mouth problem. Two weeks ago, my coastal had her mouth open for several minutes, was writhing as if in pain and went pink on her belly. She settled then did the same again. She's seemed fine since but her mouth is just partially open by a couple of millimetres.

    But today, I've noticed traces of blood around her mouth and weird ridges along the edges. In the [FONT=Arial]ph[FONT=Arial]oto below, I've o[FONT=Arial]pened the side of her mouth just a little for you[FONT=Arial] to see. I think the teeth appear strange too. [FONT=Arial]The condition seems to be deteriorating. The nearest reptile vet that I know of is some 1.5 ho[FONT=Arial]urs away, so first port of call is [FONT=Arial]to get advice.

    Thanks,
    Mark.[IMG]http://www.worldofprinting.com/3.jpg[/IMG]
    [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2014
  2. MrVic

    MrVic Active Member

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    No idea. But it looks like there are some ulcers present. Hope you get a quick diagnosis by the more experienced folk in here
     
  3. markannab

    markannab Active Member

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    After research and Googling "reptile mouth conditions", it looks very much like Stomatitis (mouth rot)? I'm chasing answers with vets in the morning.
     
  4. Dr-Zoidberg

    Dr-Zoidberg Active Member

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    Looks like canker sores, an ulcer in the mouth. It can be fatal if not treated so get to the vet as soon as you can, as an infection that close to the brain can kill rapidly.

    Stomatitis ie mouth rot or canker can be caused by a Broken tooth or laceration to the gum. I've seen it a few times in snakes being fed live prey wich have bitten the snakes mouth region.

    good luck hope it ends well for you
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2014
  5. markannab

    markannab Active Member

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    Thankyou. As a supportive treatment until we see the vet, we've just used a weak peroxide mouth wash on her (using the correct head-down technique so she didn't breath it in), followed by a water rinse. It now looks cleaner and a sizable patch of whitish stuff was washed out.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2014
  6. Dr-Zoidberg

    Dr-Zoidberg Active Member

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    You could also use warm salty water and dab it around the wound with a cotton bud to slow the infection
     
  7. GBWhite

    GBWhite Well-Known Member

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    Hi Mark,

    Definitely looks like mouth canker. It doesn't look too severe but it needs to me nipped in the bud asap as it can quickly elevate to effect deep muscle tissue and bone.

    You need to get as much gunk out of the mouth as possible and can use a pair of long nose tweezers to gently remove any loose cheesy material. Get yourself some Betadine sore throat gargle. Use a paddle pop stick to keep the mouth open then wash its mouth with salt water or diluted mouthwash in an eyedropper or syringe to clean out the mouth. Remove any loose cheesy gunk with a sterilized pair of long nose tweezers, then liberally apply the Betadine at full strength all over the infected area with a cotton bud. You will need to inspect and treat the snake's mouth every couple of days until it clears. Make sure you keep the critter pretty warm while it's under care.

    From the pic it looks like it's in the early stages. Don't let it progress and stay on top of it.

    If you think it's getting worse or needs more direct attention now, get it off to a vet for examination and mouth swab and blood test to determine the extent of the infection. The vet can then make the call if they believe the snake requires further treatment.

    Cheers,

    George.
     
  8. markannab

    markannab Active Member

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    Thanks for the info. I've just returned from the vet (we have no reptile vet here but he was good and exceedingly cheap: Free consultation, free first injection and $55.00 for the anti-biotics for me to administer each day). He's put her on a 10-day course of Baytril and I'll be doing the Betadine treatment as well.
     
  9. Infectious stomatitis (mouthrot or canker) is often associated with RI, so it's good to treat it systemically with an antibiotic. If your vet didn't advise you, you need to be careful with Baytril - avoid injecting it anywhere near the kidneys, and be aware that it can cause localised necrosis of the tissue at the injection site. Inject into alternating sides and try to avoid the spot where the needle went in previously. I believe the drug of choice these days for RI and stomatitis is Fortum, which has fewer side effects.

    You'll probably be fine though, and congrats on a great illustration of mouthrot - maybe the mods can archive the photo for other members to refer to.

    Jamie
     
  10. markannab

    markannab Active Member

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    He advised injecting behind the vent to avoid organs. Thanks for the advice on alternating locations.
     
  11. kitten_pheonix

    kitten_pheonix Well-Known Member

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    That is a peculiar spot for a vet to reccomend injections. If you can pop onto facebook and find the group "reptile quarrentine and virus awareness" shane simpson often posts advice on the group. The general spot for injections is further upwards towards the head. I believe he has a video on his youtube channel as well of where to inject antibiotics.
     
  12. Yes, I would generally inject into the muscle on either side of the spine about 1/3 of the way down from the head. There's not much elasticity in the skin on the tail, and the dispersion of the drug throughout the body might be slower from the rear end, allowing for potentially damaging necrosis to develop at the injection site.

    Jamie
     
  13. markannab

    markannab Active Member

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    I did my first injection this morning but I'll try further up the body tomorrow.
     
  14. borntobnude

    borntobnude Guest

    A few years ago our male Stimson ate a mouse backwards and got a claw through his gum which became infected , vet gave us a course of injections to give over a few weeks .
    cleared up in no time !!
     
  15. markannab

    markannab Active Member

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    Last night, Mrs Roper died. A number of symptoms appeared. Once again, she began writhing in pain. Then she went to the toilet and passed a few drops of blood. We carried her outside so she could choose to stretch out if she wanted to. The last few days, she hadn't had great control over her tail ? it would fall off her shelf. Out on the lawn, her back half became limp. Then we noticed a couple of 5mm lumps on her back muscle. I picked her to take her inside and her head just hung down. We put her in her enclosure and she was still clearly not comfortable. We went away and came back half an hour later to find her dead with her head on it's side and mouth wide open.

    There was definitely a mouth problem. Was that causing the pain? Had it affected the brain giving her less control? But I have to say it's a relief that she's gone since she's obviously been in pain for days.
     
  16. Hmmm, there was obviously an underlying problem not identified at the time of the vet visit. It is possible I guess that there was a respiratory infection, but the passing of blood may indicate something more sinister, such as a tumour, which are not uncommon in pythons. Was your injection site anywhere near the vent - could the injection have damaged something in the area?

    Jamie
     
  17. markannab

    markannab Active Member

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    The injection was way back in the tail and quite shallow. The lumps appearing on her back strongly suggest to me there were tumours. Tumours, potentially, could have caused the pain, loss of control of the back half of her body, and weakened the immune system allowing for the stomatosis.
     
  18. benjamind2010

    benjamind2010 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to hear about that. I would suspect tumors as well, going by your description of the lumps forming on the back and the blood in the stools. The tumors would have compromised the immunity from other diseases, so the snake would have succumbed to other infections as well as the tumors. Generally cancer does not end well for most snakes, and vets generally don't give pain killers to snakes, unless it's anaesthesia for an operation.
     
  19. Snapped

    Snapped Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to hear about Mrs Roper :(
     
  20. Prof_Moreliarty

    Prof_Moreliarty Well-Known Member

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    Genuinely sorry to hear that mate , I would be gutted. But at least she's not in pain anymore.
     
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