Yet another yearling Stimson's food size query (sorry!)

Discussion in 'Herp Help' started by Blighty, Apr 28, 2018.

  1. Blighty

    Blighty Not so new Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2018
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    12
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    WA
    Hey guys, I hate to be "that" guy but I was just wondering if I could have some super quick advice regarding what direction to take feeding my Stimmie.

    Essentially, I got my Stimmie at the beginning of the month (Sunday the 8th) and it so far has been a great experience. He has been very tolerant of handling and feeding looks like it will be fine. His first feed with me was on the 15th (Sunday week) and he was still a bit too nervous to strike so I had to leave it with him. This was only a single Velvet Mouse (so around 6-7g, too small I know. I offered a Hopper the night prior and despite seeming interested, he would not take it at all). The Friday (20th) of that week I noticed he had milky eye and of course recognised it as shed. He still took 2 velvet mice that Sunday (so around 13g) and successfully shed on the Monday.

    Probably the quickest shed in the history of snakes, but still, he seems to be doing good. He has been very receptive to handling and has had no stuck pieces.

    Anyway, I should stop spouting my story and actually get to the relevant bit.

    I decided to weigh him yesterday and discovered that he must be a bit of a runt compared to what other Stimson's seem to be, at 57g. Considering posts seem to have them between 150-200g+, he definitely seems to need some work there. He is also around maybe between 30 and 40cm? I have not measured him yet.

    His card from the breeder states he was born in Feb 2017 and he has mostly been eating 2x Fuzzie Mice. His latest shed before I acquired him was March and then he apparently ate 2x Hopper Mice.

    Now, don't get me wrong - It's not like I want to be malicious and try to power-feed the poor thing. I just want to know whether I should continue 2x Velvet (so ~13g), 1x Hopper (~10g) or 2x Hopper (~20g) - Bearing in mind he is 57g himself. I also have doubts he would actually fit 2x Hoppers well, but I am not silly enough to assume that he outright "cannot".

    There is also a little thought in the back of my mind that believes I may not have actually been given the correct feeding/info card for this Stimson. Especially considering I was told they only had hatchies when I went in (unless my terminology is poor and this age in a python can still be considered a hatchling?). It would certainly explain why he seems so small compared to what a yearling should be, and also why it simply appears he could not take 2x Hoppers despite the feeding card saying he did. Still, the dealers are really nice people and I didn't want to cause any dramas that way.

    Thank you for any thoughts!

    EDIT: I should also just add that I do understand that reptiles are not like mammals, and do not necessarily need to reach certain weight and size thresholds at certain ages. I know that their overall size will come down to how much they are eating - I just want to make sure I don't stunt his growth :)
    IMG_20180408_115645.jpg IMG_20180426_205441_HHT.jpg IMG_20180426_205427.jpg IMG_20180426_204955.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2018
  2. Flaviemys purvisi

    Flaviemys purvisi Very Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,811
    Likes Received:
    1,174
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    QLD
    Pictures can be deceptive but when I look at this I think that this python could take a hopper easily. My stimmy is on weaner super mice which are almost the size of regular adult mice and it'd be about 50cm long (guesstimate.)
    20180210_125653.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2018
  3. Blighty

    Blighty Not so new Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2018
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    12
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    WA
    Thanks for that. I am certainly leaning towards a Hopper.
    I am probably reading too much into weights, but the only thing that gets me would be the quantity. The 2x Velvets would be around 13g and a single Hopper is around 10g, so do you think I should offer a second Hopper (so 20g total, which is around 35% of his weight?). I just wanted to be careful with offering him less total food.
     
  4. Flaviemys purvisi

    Flaviemys purvisi Very Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,811
    Likes Received:
    1,174
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    QLD
    Forget the weights for now... look at your python's midsection... the fattest part... you want to offer a rodent about 1.5 - 2 times the width of your snake's girth. Don't be put off by their tiny head... you're thinking "there's no way" I know... believe me, they make it happen. ;)
     
  5. Blighty

    Blighty Not so new Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2018
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    12
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    WA
    Oh don't get me wrong, I am a very open-minded person. I understand the jaws can take something crazy like 3x the width of the head. I was more thinking length of the snake vs multiple Hoppers, but in hindsight I am just being silly. And you're right, I'll drop the thought of weights and offer a Hopper. If he takes a second all good, if not then no harm.

    Also, your python looks amazing!
     
  6. Flaviemys purvisi

    Flaviemys purvisi Very Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,811
    Likes Received:
    1,174
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    QLD
    I breed my own Quackenbush super mice and I just gassed and froze 9 four week old weaners a couple of days ago. Here's a pic of what my stimmy is currently eating (1 a week). Slams them down no dramas.
    20180428_152231.jpg
     
  7. Bl69aze

    Bl69aze Very Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2017
    Messages:
    1,340
    Likes Received:
    807
    Gender:
    Male
    why forget the weights? My snake can turn a rabbit that’s a good 3-4x thicker than his mid section and constrict it down to where there’s a nice sized but still quite small bulge.

    I feed them regularly at 35% of body weight for my older guys and 25% for my yearling, at 200g, getting a 50-60g feed.

    People don’t seem to take into account that when they constrict their food, are they “squeezing it into a noodle” is how my breeder put it.

    @Blighty At 57g I’d try go for in between 10-20g weekly


    Edit: a python with the a head the size of a thumb assuming u don’t have teenytiny thumb can take rabbits
     
  8. Pauls_Pythons

    Pauls_Pythons Power Seller Power Seller

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2012
    Messages:
    1,975
    Likes Received:
    2,386
    Location:
    Melbourne
    If it will happily eat 2 velvets move it up to a hopper. (Once you feed him hoppers his growth rate will accelerate).

    When you can see that 1 hopper is not enough give it 2.
    Feeding larger numbers of smaller food items is generally considered as being more use for the animal than stuffing it with 1 larger food item. The smaller food items are generally leaner and therefor dont lead to the animal getting fat.
     
    dragonlover1 likes this.
  9. Flaviemys purvisi

    Flaviemys purvisi Very Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,811
    Likes Received:
    1,174
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    QLD
    I believe you, it's just making things overcomplicated that's all, a lot less hassle just to do a visual... yep, that wide, he could take this rodent easy, or nah that's clearly too small and or that's probably doable but I'll wait another 2 sheds before trying. ;) I've never weighed my pythons or their food ever. Lol
     
    Bl69aze likes this.
  10. Blighty

    Blighty Not so new Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2018
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    12
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    WA
    Thanks for all those comments guys, it was all certainly useful info!
     
    Bl69aze and Flaviemys purvisi like this.
  11. Sdaji

    Sdaji Almost Legendary

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2004
    Messages:
    6,900
    Likes Received:
    344
    Location:
    Victoria
    Weight is a really good way to do it for a newbie.

    An experienced keeper doesn't need to bother because they can do it by eye, but before you have a feel for it, going by weight is foolproof. I generally wouldn't bother feeding anything under 10% of a python's weight to it (though there are exceptions in unusual circumstances such as rehabilitating an emaciated snake), and for a newbie it's safe not to go above about 25% of any snake's weight (though if you know your snakes and understand all the variables you can go higher - in a few cases over the years I've exceeded 100%, but that's pretty crazy and I definitely don't recommend it). Shooting for 20% of a python's body weight per feed is a fairly reasonable way to go. If you have stuff much under 15% you can give them two items, and if it's a little over 20% it will be fine, but that's a fair point to shoot for. Other keepers will have different preferences, and that's entirely fine. Over time you will develop your own.

    As someone else said, doing it by eye is fine, but if it doubt, a set of digital scales will give you a solid reference you can be sure about.
     
    Bl69aze likes this.
  12. Flaviemys purvisi

    Flaviemys purvisi Very Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,811
    Likes Received:
    1,174
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    QLD
    Hehehe you're welcome.
     
  13. Blighty

    Blighty Not so new Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2018
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    12
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    WA
    And a quick update, he happily took two Hoppers. The little gobble-noodle didn't even bother going back into his hide in the 30 minutes it took to defrost the second.
     
    kittycat17 and Flaviemys purvisi like this.
  14. Flaviemys purvisi

    Flaviemys purvisi Very Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,811
    Likes Received:
    1,174
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    QLD
    Nice work! ;)
     

Share This Page