NSW Sellers need to advertise their Licence Number

[peterjohnson64]

Hi folks and SPS Administrators,

i posted a few months ago about the new laws relating to NSW licences and the ways peole can now advertise. We are now allwoed to advertise on web sites but we must display our licence number.

I have noticed that people are not doing this on this web site and also that the template does not ask for it.

If we do not comply with NPWS rules then we risk the whole "advertising" thing.

Please, NSW sellers, start showing your licence numbers.

 

[amazonian]

Cool, then we can randomly choose members to pretend thats where we got all our WC animals from. We can even use their details to offload some animals that we really sold on the blackmarket to unlicenced keepers lol.

I think I will continue trading without advertising my name, suburb & licence number over the internet

 

[peterjohnson64]

Thats fine mate but the site should not be promoting illegal behaviour. And the staff at NPWS are here every day.

 

[spongebob]

Thats fine mate but the site should not be promoting illegal behaviour. And the staff at NPWS are here every day.

Take your point, but it seems like DECS has not raised this issue, so why should we bothered?

 

[peterjohnson64]

Further to my last - that is a good point you make Amazonian. I have just finished a detailed submission to NPWS about their licensing review but I didn;t mention the security and potential fraud risks of forcing people to advertise their licence numbers.

As they read these posts (and especially one with this title) I hope they will take that on board.

 

[amazonian]

I was of the impression that these reptile forums were classified as a type of "Herp society" in the eyes of NPWS, so advertising Reptiles this way has been legal all along. I can't remember where I read this, possibly on the NPWS website, but I deffinately did read it.

I am not aware of any new rules you are talking about as I havn't read them myself, but personally if this is the case I don't want to advertise my details and make myself vulnerable for scams. I would rather advertise via other avenues.

Would like to hear others opinions on the subject and hopefully NPWS may even chime in with some detailed info for us.

 

[mysnakesau]

Amazonian if you advertise in public places such as newspapers your ad wouldn't be printed unless you show your license number so this website shouldn't be any different. I know what you are saying though. I had my license certificate stolen a few weeks back. NPWS have issued me a new certificate but who knows where my old one is. I often wonder how would I ever prove myself innocent if such acts were carried out.

 

[Jason]

Cool, then we can randomly choose members to pretend thats where we got all our WC animals from. We can even use their details to offload some animals that we really sold on the blackmarket to unlicenced keepers lol.

I have actually heard of that happening, somebody using somebodys number to sell some wild herps. iv had this conversation with a couple of herpers and i do believe its a stupid rule. i dont see why we need to allow anyone and everyone to see our licence number. could somebody explain the reasoning or is ir just another stupid rule that NPWS brilliantly thought up? there may be an understandable and good reason for it but i sure as hell dont see it?
thanks

 

[spongebob]

Amazonian if you advertise in public places such as newspapers your ad wouldn't be printed unless you show your license number so this website shouldn't be any different. I know what you are saying though. I had my license certificate stolen a few weeks back. NPWS have issued me a new certificate but who knows where my old one is. I often wonder how would I ever prove myself innocent if such acts were carried out.

Look on tradingpost.-plenty of reptiles advertised from NSW with no licence number. It's just an ad like a rabbit or whatever. It doesnt really matter what the legislation says unless it can be 'policed, and if tradingpost is carrying these adverts well why would anyone else be bothered.
The captiive licencing system cannot regulate against illegal activity or protect native wildlife. Only the honesty of individuals can.

 

[FAY]

DEC come on here almost every day. They see exactly what goes on...how come they haven't put a thread up about it, letting us know that the rules have changed and explaining why??

 

[NCHERPS]

DEC come on here almost every day. They see exactly what goes on...how come they haven't put a thread up about it, letting us know that the rules have changed and explaining why??

My thought's to Fay.

I know Peter is just trying to help out here, but it needs to become more official by DEC officially asking each website to abide by such rules, then things can be looked at by Admin and issues addressed.

I must say that I do see the potential threat brought up by Amazonian and Jason.

As far as I am aware, it's only SA that have officially insisted that this happens, as has now been enforced by such sites as the Herp Trader and ourselves.

 

[Magpie]

Putting your licence number on here is really no diferent to supplying it to someone who buys something off you.

 

[JasonL]

except a thousand more people have it for their use.

 

[=bECS=]

Putting your licence number on here is really no diferent to supplying it to someone who buys something off you.

Except for the fact that only that person can see it and you also have their details, as opposed to, randoms copying down your number and information to use in their latest scams.

Ive been caught out by a scammer when i first got my licence, he used to frequent petlink.
After talking to a few other people about it, he apparently sells people wild caught then gives them the details of the person he ripped off before them etc.

Now what would happen if this guy and others like him, simply have to sign up to a forum to get a large number of these details?
Also, then would'nt it be up to the person whose details that have been stolen to prove it wasnt actually them or they werent involved in the scam.

Just sounds like more trouble than its worth, there are people who have large collections that wont let people have their addresses, i cant see them displaying their full names and lic numbers for everyone to see in a public forum!

 

[gman78]

S.A sellers have been giving their licence details for a while now and i haven't heard of any fraud with people using their numbers...
Not saying that i agree with it at all. I never like giving out my details either

 

[=bECS=]

Theres a huge amount of fraud in NSW without them/us having to display numbers in advertising, i would imagine there would be an increase.
I doubt keepers would check every paper, website, forum etc everyday to see if their details have been used(stolen), thus making it easier for those on the scam.

 

[Magpie]

I can't see why fraud would increase?
Are you suggesting that more people would break the law simply because they had other people licence numbers? Everyone that has a reptile has at least one other persons number anyway.
And all they'd have to do is tyre kick you, pretend to be from another state and get your details to start an import licence.

 

[amazonian]

But the ease of the scam is increased.
They could do all of this without the hassles of tyre kicking.
Simply log online, pick a number, use it in your fauna book and no one is the wiser.

EG: Mr/Mr's law abiding citizen could be tempted to throw off a recently deceased animal as sold to "so & so" rather than look like they accidently killed it. Although this person is not your average conmen, they seen an easy opportunity and went for it, because they were scared of looking unfit to keep animals.

 

[peterjohnson64]

As for people not knowing about this rule it is actually written on your licence conditions. I know that no one reads them but that is not a defence for not complying. And I will qualify that by saying it is only written on the new AKL licences. If you haven't renewed for a while you may still be undfer the old rules and as such you don't have to display your licence number but by the same token you also can't advertise outside of a herp society. Under the new rules they have broadened the places you can advertise to include reptile specific web sites and publications. This is really just in response to years of practice where they have allowed it to happen anyway so anyone with an old licence would still be OK to advertise here.

But looking at the new rules I still believe that Petlink is not a legal place to advertise reptiles for NSW licence holders. Petlink is not a reptile specific web site. If, however, NPWS determined that the reptile section of Petlink was a "reptile specific" web site then so would a reptile section of the classified ads in a newspaper or a "reptiles for sale" notice board in a pet shop.

And now you can see why I have previously stated that Herp Trader is the best site for advertising reptiles as you can remain anonymous. Advertise your licence number and nothing else.

if you want to make a submission to the licencing review committee contact me and I will give you their details. I mentioned a few times in my submission that if the department aren't interesting in policing certain restrictions or requirements that they should simply remove them. This could be another one.

 

[FAY]

Peter, ( I don't mean to be disresptectful) you are a member of another site that most of your buddies are on....they have a for sale section and they are not putting there AKL Nos on their ads and I cannot see a thread that you have started about anyone on that site doing that...how come??