Bearded Dragon Killing Spree

[Dave]

Good to see that a person with many decades of experience keeping herps of many different types is giving out advice about what can be generally expected.

It makes me sad when so much misinformation is given out be people without knowledge.

I shouldn't be thanked. I have not had decades of experience. But I have learnt ALOT of things from many experienced keepers. Some from this site some from other places... I just try to help when I can lol. It seems that many keepers here though do it different ways then I have found works. But I can't say my information is fully correct.

 

[gregcranston]

I can't say my information is fully correct.

No-one can Dave, you're doing ok, I don't think age should be held against you or anyone. We all have different opinions on this matter, which is to be expected!

 

[hydropython]

I shouldn't be thanked. I have not had decades of experience. But I have learnt ALOT of things from many experienced keepers. Some from this site some from other places... I just try to help when I can lol. It seems that many keepers here though do it different ways then I have found works. But I can't say my information is fully correct.

:shock::shock::shock:You've nicely highlighted my point.:shock::shock::shock:

You were NOT helping at all. You say that the published references of some people are rubbish and fail to provide any published references to back your statements up.

Individual animals show variations in temperament and this is the major factor which should be accounted for when deciding whether or not to house animals together.

Some humans are very social animals, some are down right anti social.

But to make a judgement that it is either ok, or not ok to keep humans together as a species generalisation based on observations made of a single pair, or on the interactions of one individual with a number of others is utter nonsense.

The only reason to not keep individuals together as a general rule is to prevent the situation from ever occurring. Some will cope well, others won't cope well at all.

 

[cris]

Biancanbobby, you need to keep in mind reptiles dont see other animals as friends(with few exceptions), what you show in your avatar is asking for trouble, both could kill each other very quickly.

As for keeping beardies together its normally fine if they have enough space and the individuals get along. Im sure there would be humans around who have killed someone who lives with them, but it is still generally safe to live with other humans. It is extremely important to watch carefully and use good judgement when putting any reptiles together.

 

[Dave]

Sorry, I re read your last post, and I understand what you meant now. Since I haven't been keeping reptiles since I was 4 I must be wrong. I don't see why some people think young people don't know anything..

:shock::shock::shock:You've nicely highlighted my point.:shock::shock::shock:

You were NOT helping at all. You say that the published references of some people are rubbish and fail to provide any published references to back your statements up.

Individual animals show variations in temperament and this is the major factor which should be accounted for when deciding whether or not to house animals together.

Some humans are very social animals, some are down right anti social.

But to make a judgement that it is either ok, or not ok to keep humans together as a species generalisation based on observations made of a single pair, or on the interactions of one individual with a number of others is utter nonsense.

The only reason to not keep individuals together as a general rule is to prevent the situation from ever occurring. Some will cope well, others won't cope well at all.

 

[hydropython]

Biancanbobby, you need to keep in mind reptiles dont see other animals as friends(with few exceptions), what you show in your avatar is asking for trouble, both could kill each other very quickly.

As for keeping beardies together its normally fine if they have enough space and the individuals get along. Im sure there would be humans around who have killed someone who lives with them, but it is still generally safe to live with other humans. It is extremely important to watch carefully and use good judgement when putting any reptiles together.

Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[gregcranston]

You were NOT helping at all. .

Ease up Newby! :x

 

[hydropython]

Ease up Newby! :x

Its noob.

and new to the site is not at all the same to lacking experience.

 

[Dave]

Ease up Newby! :x

LOL!

I was asked for proof once, and then he said he didn't want to argue so left? Do you really want me to post a page or so of information on why not to house bearded dragons together? I've seen 50+ people come along and say "my dragon killed the other" "my dragons keep breeding" "my dragon has lost all limbs and died" etc etc. No matter how many people say they house them together OK doesn't even compare to stories of dragons dying. In the wild they don't follow eachover around in a cage that is nothing like the wild.. They don't bask together, they wont eat together, they will only meet up to breed or fighting for territory. It is the Truth.

 

[biancanbobby]

Biancanbobby, you need to keep in mind reptiles dont see other animals as friends(with few exceptions), what you show in your avatar is asking for trouble, both could kill each other very quickly.

Just FYI The lizard in the photo is a toy. Its not even real!

 

[Dave]

Here you go buddy! This is a bad case that has happen. This is the story then I will post pictures of him if you don't believe me..

hello everyone. i am a new member (i created an e-mail account for the sole purpose of joining your community), and my reason is to try and give my beardie it's best shot at life. i searched your wonderfully extensive forums before starting this post as i did not want to add clutterous new topics to your agenda, but it seems i may have to... forgive me if i do not follow the correct parameters of posting, for this is my first.

i was browsing the isles of my local pet store when i noticed something wrong. in a ten gallon terrarium i observed one bearded dragon(sex unknown) far away from the other four and it was huddling against the glass in a near vertical position. all four legs had been terribly mangled by it's tank mates(i suspect during an unsupervised feeding) and it seemed to have already died. the two hind legs were reduced to un-symetrical stumps and both of its front legs seemed to be completely missing. i was deeply struck to see it open its eyes briefly only to slowly close them again. when i asked the store owner what had happened he seemed oblivious to the situation(granted it was a very fresh scene) and said it had died. i held back my anger and suggested that his assesment was incorrect. i then asked him if i could have it since it was going to die anyhow and he accepted.

(im going to use the pronoun "him" because "it" has such a cold feel)

the first night i brought him home i really didn't think he would make it to morning. i held him in my hand as i walked to the bathroom to administer what little aid i could for the time being. i mixed a solution of 25%hydrogen per oxide(at 4% dilution) and luke-warm water in a shallow dish and gently rinsed his wounds. i'm not cirtain if he was too tired to fight back or just in shock but i was extra delicate just in case the bathing was painful or stressful. the wounds themselves were atrocious: his left arm seemed to be the only remaining limb aside from his tail but it was badly wounded and tucked tightly against his chest(appearently broken). his right arm was closer to chewed-over piece of jerky than a limb and was congeled to his torso. each of his back legs had been cropped neatly, as if with a pair of scissors... i feared gangrene or infection would take him in the night and(being a new pet owner) the best i could do was to place him in a large tupperware container (no lid of course) with a fluffy towell to rest on in a warm place. i felt dismal comfort in thinking "at least to die here will be less terrifying than to die alone in a dark, cold, smelly corner waiting to be finished like so much chinese food". when i awoke the next morning the first thing i did was go to see if he had made it, and he had.

he was awake and all of the wounds had already started to scab over. over the next few days i realized that his right arm, while fully connected to his body, would have to be removed. in the days since i brought him home the limb continued to degrade until finally i made the hard descision to amputate. i examined the limb from afar for at least ten minutes before i finally picked him up. i had heard people say that when they cut their birds nails too short they use a small amount of ash to stop the bleeding so i had a small pile of ash as well as toilet paper squares incase something should go wrong. as i held the sharpest scissors i could find in one hand and the dragon in the other, i studied the arm for another ten minutes trying to find where it was still livid and made the deciscion to cut conservativly away from that point(hoping the nerves were dead there). to my relief i was able to take it in one clean motion without a drop of blood and on closer examination found that i couldnt have removed it soon enough. it was riddled with infection and had no sign of scabs or healing. left over was a little stump about a centameter long. over the next few days i gave him subsequent bathings in the same solution and he finally ate his first cricket. another week went by when one day i was delighted to see his little left arm untucked for the first time! the hand on this limb had suffered the same fate as his now amputated arm and i reluctantly followed the same procedure as before to an identical outcome: a clean, conservative removal of only the most damaged portion. after that, it was clear sailing. considering he was almost completely immobile and totally dependant his demeanor was surprisingly sunny. he began wiggling aroung his container(kind of like when soilders crawl on their belly under barbed wire) and seemed to be coping with his disabilities quite well.

well fast forward seven months and i've got a second-hand ten-gallon terrarium from a friend and lined it with smooth river stones under his lamp(a 30watt 7%uvb flourescent) and digestible calium sand on the dark half. since climbing is unfortunatly not an option for him(this makes me sad) i put various low profile branches around the cage for proping up on. he gets to go and bask in my back yard whenever i have an hour or so to just sit out in the sun and watch him carefully(he seems weary of any birds overhead) it took me months to finally get him to understand the concept of a water bowl(until then i was giving him a daily drink of water from my finger tip). feeding seems to be a minor difficulty, as any insect could easily out-maneuvor him. we've got it down to a routine: as sad as it may seem, i must break the back legs of the crickets i feed him or else when i place them in his mouth they jump clear out of the cage. i just recently got him eating greens(so far only romaine but im letting him try new things too).

well thats pretty much where im at right now. any sound advice would be great, for as i previously stated im just trying to give him the best shot at lifewith the cards he was dealt. sorry if this post was really long winded, and thanks for your time.


(This guy is in America though. but it still shows you what happens... somethings he did he shouldn't of though..)

 

[Dave]

Picture when baby

Want more stories and evidence MR? I'm sure Kirby from this site knows this case...

 

[hornet]

LOL!

I was asked for proof once, and then he said he didn't want to argue so left? Do you really want me to post a page or so of information on why not to house bearded dragons together? I've seen 50+ people come along and say "my dragon killed the other" "my dragons keep breeding" "my dragon has lost all limbs and died" etc etc. No matter how many people say they house them together OK doesn't even compare to stories of dragons dying. In the wild they don't follow eachover around in a cage that is nothing like the wild.. They don't bask together, they wont eat together, they will only meet up to breed or fighting for territory. It is the Truth.

i have only heard of a very few accounts of beardies killing eachother. Nipped tails and toes is not uncommon but is a totally different problem to what we are talking about here, nipped tails and toes normally happens when hatchies are kept together and toes or tails are mistaken as food. The problem Bianca is having is an agression problem. I have heard far more cases of people keeping their beardies together with no problems then i have of people having them bully or attack eachother. I know very well they are solitary in the wild, quite commony see them out in the field and never in the company of others but that does not mean they shouldnt be kept together, in most cases it will be fine. Only reason i will keep dragons of the same species separate is if there is a major size difference or there have been problems with stress which has only been once where i had a young cane grass dragon go off its food when kept with its clutch mate, that dragon is now back up to health and back with its clutch mate in the hope of getting young this season.

 

[gregcranston]

He's beautiful!

 

[Dave]

i have only heard of a very few accounts of beardies killing eachother. Nipped tails and toes is not uncommon but is a totally different problem to what we are talking about here, nipped tails and toes normally happens when hatchies are kept together and toes or tails are mistaken as food. The problem Bianca is having is an agression problem. I have heard far more cases of people keeping their beardies together with no problems then i have of people having them bully or attack eachother. I know very well they are solitary in the wild, quite commony see them out in the field and never in the company of others but that does not mean they shouldnt be kept together, in most cases it will be fine. Only reason i will keep dragons of the same species separate is if there is a major size difference or there have been problems with stress which has only been once where i had a young cane grass dragon go off its food when kept with its clutch mate, that dragon is now back up to health and back with its clutch mate in the hope of getting young this season.

I realise this, I was showing what can happen before death.. Two beardies can end up like those pictures.. or even death.. I've seen adults take tails and toe nips too not only juvi's. I think I would prefer to keep seperate and spend money on another enclosure uvb etc then have things like that happen..

 

[Dan19]

This is a story I have found myself on the internet.

Hey everyone,
I am only 12 years old and I have been keeping bearded dragons for over 15 years now! But am a newby here. I live in Antarctica, and keep bearded dragons as a pet. For some wierd reason my bearded dragons that I have been getting imported here keep dying! I have optimum conditions here in Antarctica, that is the reason why I keep them in an outside Avairy. I feed them 1 cricket a day and always have fresh vegies out for them. They really love there vegies frozen! I would like to know what is happening to my precious beardies and solve this problem. I suspect rough play from the housemates.
Thanks.
Internet.

As i have said, if you want to keep discussing this with me, feel free to give me a pm. I do not want to disturb this thread anymore that i have.
And BiancanBobby, is there any chance a rock or something heavy could have moved/fallen onto the first bearded dragons head, as i didn't think a bearded dragon could fully squish anothers head so much?

 

[gregcranston]

This is a story I have found myself on the internet.

Hey everyone,
I am only 12 years old and I have been keeping bearded dragons for over 15 years now! But am a newby here. I live in Antarctica, and keep bearded dragons as a pet. For some wierd reason my bearded dragons that I have been getting imported here keep dying! I have optimum conditions here in Antarctica, that is the reason why I keep them in an outside Avairy. I feed them 1 cricket a day and always have fresh vegies out for them. They really love there vegies frozen! I would like to know what is happening to my precious beardies and solve this problem. I suspect rough play from the housemates.
Thanks.
Internet.

LOL!!
Is that for real Dan, or did you just write it youreself?

 

[Dave]

This is a story I have found myself on the internet.

Hey everyone,
I am only 12 years old and I have been keeping bearded dragons for over 15 years now! But am a newby here. I live in Antarctica, and keep bearded dragons as a pet. For some wierd reason my bearded dragons that I have been getting imported here keep dying! I have optimum conditions here in Antarctica, that is the reason why I keep them in an outside Avairy. I feed them 1 cricket a day and always have fresh vegies out for them. They really love there vegies frozen! I would like to know what is happening to my precious beardies and solve this problem. I suspect rough play from the housemates.
Thanks.
Internet.

.... How could I make up a story plus pictures then? Be arrogant about it then. I was just trying to help somebody out by showing some proof? What proof do you want if I can't copy and paste something? I don't see why just because i'm 14 means I'm a stupid idiot....

 

[=bECS=]

Want more stories and evidence MR? I'm sure Kirby from this site knows this case...

Don't tell me your another one that's going to regurgitate that American rubbish on here too

This is a story I have found myself on the internet.

Hey everyone,
I am only 12 years old and I have been keeping bearded dragons for over 15 years now! But am a newby here. I live in Antarctica, and keep bearded dragons as a pet. For some wierd reason my bearded dragons that I have been getting imported here keep dying! I have optimum conditions here in Antarctica, that is the reason why I keep them in an outside Avairy. I feed them 1 cricket a day and always have fresh vegies out for them. They really love there vegies frozen! I would like to know what is happening to my precious beardies and solve this problem. I suspect rough play from the housemates.
Thanks.
Internet.

Thats gold!!

Bianca, as its already been said, some beardies can be more aggressive than others.
I personally keep and have kept several beardies together, but its probably best for you to separate them if you dont know what signs to look for and are new to keeping.

 

[Dave]

Don't tell me your another one that's going to regurgitate that American rubbish on here too


Thats gold!!

Bianca, as its already been said, some beardies can be more aggressive than others.
I personally keep and have kept several beardies together, but its probably best for you to separate them if you dont know what signs to look for and are new to keeping.

I'm sure thats why our dragons are nice and healthy then? Having no husbandry problems or health problems It seems like Americans are far ahead of us in Dragons in captivity then us :lol: