Walhalla Ghost
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thomasssss
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now while i have no idea how you would test for it ( which is probably the real problem scientists face not that there are no testable conditions for it to be done)
as i said in my earlier post i have traveled to Indonesia since i was very young and i once went to a ceremony thing that was at the local cemetery ( i know fits right in with ghost stuff) this ceremony is only for the older people of the village no children at all even tourists ( they believe that a child's body is to weak to fight off the bad spirits)
now i cant really remember exactly why they do this but we went to about 100m away from the local cemetery ( our local friend that took us didn't want us right up near the action ) basically they sort of go there and the spirits sort of takes over them and they run around chanting all this random stuff , we were sitting off to the side of the road in a dark spot under a walkway into someones family compound when we seen three men running up toward the cemetery the middle one seemed to have no control of what he was doing and was basically getting forced up to the cemetery by his mates , he was possessed if you'd like to call it that ( im not saying i believe all of this just saying what i seen) and they where taking him to the cemetery to get rid of the evil spirits inside him
now im not sure if i got all the details of this correct as in the why they do it stuff and exactly what was going on that night im not real sure ,so if any body has more of an understanding of the ceremony im talking about please feel free to say so
as i said i don't know whether or not to believe this stuff but ill always keep an open mind and ill probably find out one day
but as you said slim6y that there is no testable conditions does this not count as one ? or is it as i said that they just have absolutely no way of testing for it because there is things that we don't yet understand
slim6y
Almost Legendary
Not so sure about possessions - but I assume if someone is possessed and they then lose the spirit then they're exercised... But if that spirit re-enters them, are they repossessed?
Anyway... As far as ghosts... All I can think of for testing conditions would be - when a ghost is seen, can ANY other alternative explanation be claimed for it?
For example - cupboards banging, was there wind (that sort of thing, but I seriously don't know...).
For example, we know many constants already (natural phenomena) - if those remain constant at a 'sighting' of a ghost then surely you'd have something...
But - there has been 1000s of scientists who have actively pursued this avenue and have come up with nothing. It's not a new idea out there. There have been plenty of tests.
I watched a documentary about this once, it had Dan Akroyd and Bill Murray in it and they drove around in a white Hearse checking out paranormal activities... Was a very interesting documentary.
thomasssss
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im not talking about ghosts being seen , im talking about going to one of these ceremonies and testing one of the possessed ( i guess is the only word for it ) why have they not done this, you don't need to be a believer or not to see these events just go to the villages in which these take place , when they take place and you will see it ,why have they not tested for this yet is it because as i said there is no way of testing for it because to me the conditions are right for it to be done
slim6y
Almost Legendary
How do we know they haven't tested these ceremonies?
I'm guessing there's not a lot of funding in the scientific community to debunk pseudoscience... But it doesn't mean to say that this sort of thing hasn't been tested before.
Unfortunately I've not found any recent scientific journals with anything paranormal in them... So I can't say if it has or has not been tested and what the conditions of testing were.
There's this one:
Is there any scientific explanation of the paranormal?
or this one seems to suggest how you could actually scientifically evaluate claims:
http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/2003-02869-000
I think the above paper would be very interesting....
I'm guessing there's not a lot of funding in the scientific community to debunk pseudoscience... But it doesn't mean to say that this sort of thing hasn't been tested before.
Unfortunately I've not found any recent scientific journals with anything paranormal in them... So I can't say if it has or has not been tested and what the conditions of testing were.
There's this one:
Is there any scientific explanation of the paranormal?
or this one seems to suggest how you could actually scientifically evaluate claims:
http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/2003-02869-000
I think the above paper would be very interesting....
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junglepython2
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Thomasssss, while I can't speak for the Bali ceremonies, a lot of these spiritual ceremonies in traditional cultures, the possessed person or the one who speaks to the spirits is jacked up on hallucigens, deprived of sleep, and then forced to dance to exhaustion, combine this with some superstition and you have apparent paranormal activity.
Australis
Almost Legendary
I dont know anything about the specific example/location you mention Thomas but are you maybe asking if there is alternative explanations for what is perceived as some kind of "supernatural phenomenon" ?
If so, there is a lot out there kinda showing the reverse of what the case you gave might propose... for example people professionally diagnosed with having some form of mental illness by a psychologist are re-diagnosed by someone else to be suffering from some supernatural phenomenon (possessed etc). The only thing that seems to validate this is the persons world view.
Maybe this would be a better example.. Haitian folklore on Zombies... and what is really going on there.
Zombie ? News in Science (ABC Science)
thomasssss
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you bring me back to my first point , you said there where no testable conditions , does this not count as one ?
as i said before i don't necessarily believe in this sort of thing but i wont just try to palm it off and say that there drugged and mentally ill
Red-Ink
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Any of the skeptics experienced something they can't explain?
J
junglepython2
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Plenty, but that doesn't mean it was a ghost, alien or bigfoot.
Red-Ink
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Yeah... same here, forever deemed "un-explained". Some people are too quick to want things "defined" I reckon.
Yes. I felt someone or something kick me in the back of the knee while on a ghost tour at Port Arthur. I was standing at the back of the group and to the side and the nearest person I could see was two or three metres to the side and slightly behind me, just out of my peripheral vision. As Junglepython said, it doesn't mean it was a ghost. That person, although he seemed too far away, might have been playing a trick on me and being so quiet and quick I couldn't see or hear him move. Maybe someone was hiding in the shadows and poking me with a pole. Or perhaps I was getting too much into the spirit of things, so to speak, and had a psychological response to the ghost tales. There are too many other possibilities for me to say "ghost".
Of course. process of elimination is a great procedure to follow wether you are a sceptic or believer.
In this scenareo one would take a step to the next level and confront the possible pranksters, look in the shadows to see any observation or movement and discount this observation if it was the case. You saying that there were too many other possibilities without asking questions for it to be a ghost is imo is not open minded. Open minded people on both fronts would again use the process of elimination from the most likely to the most unlikely. Great story by the way.
waruikazi
Legendary
This is a true story. It happened to me annd then to a mate entirely independant of each other and about a month apart.
I was hunting with my skin brother and his son on a billabong in Oenpelli. We shot heaps of ducks and geese, had a great afternoon and were heading home. On our way we stopped just under the escarpment to collect firewood. The sun had just dipped below the horizon and the first stars were coming out.
As we were putting the wood into my ute the escarpment roared at us. It sounded like a jet taking off, was really loud and lasted about 5 seconds. I looked at my skin brother and before i could say anything he dropped the wood he was carrying and got straight back in my car and we pretty much ran away. I quizzed him about it once we got home and his explanation was that it was the rainbow serpent telling us that we weren't meant to be there.
Same thing happened to a mate who was walking his dog a few KM from where i heard the noise about a month later. He thought i was talking smack until he heard it.
Red-Ink
Very Well-Known Member
Great story Gordo....
I specially like the visuals I was getting of the sunset... would love to see that one day.
Any other explanation you could come up with? What time did your other mate hear the noise?
I specially like the visuals I was getting of the sunset... would love to see that one day.
Any other explanation you could come up with? What time did your other mate hear the noise?
moosenoose
Legendary
How do you explain this then???
waruikazi
Legendary
I think it was probably a land slip or mini-earth quake in the escarpment, no jet aircraft or explosive blasting around here. It was about 7pm.
mysnakesau
Almost Legendary
Coles in Kempsey have video footage of what appears to be footsteps stalking a cleaner. When he mopped the floor he turned around on more than one occasion to find a muddy footprint behind him and he swore his own shoes were not dirty. Then the cameras picked up foot prints walking around the ATM machine before it disappeared. Another episode happened early one morning when the early deli and bakery workers were standing around gasbagging, and they swear something lifted the glass deli-case lid and dropped it, smashing it to pieces. They too, swear, that they did not leave the lid up for it to drop down. Something lifted the lid and slammed it back down, shattering the glass.
Regardless of these stories, I still have not had an encounter with the coles ghost. I started work at 5am one Sunday morning and was the only person in the building. I felt a little nervous and kept looking behind me. Not because anything was making me, but because of the stories I've heard. I guess the ghost had no reason to bother me.
The manager at the time the video footage was captured, was quite freaked out and called a medium in. I never heard what the outcome was, but an old hotel was knocked down on that land site, when Coles bought the land and many people talk of a ghost of an old lady who lived there. Perhaps it was her, still there. Who knows. Only those who believe in the ghosts will ever experience an answer. I see nothing.
Regardless of these stories, I still have not had an encounter with the coles ghost. I started work at 5am one Sunday morning and was the only person in the building. I felt a little nervous and kept looking behind me. Not because anything was making me, but because of the stories I've heard. I guess the ghost had no reason to bother me.
The manager at the time the video footage was captured, was quite freaked out and called a medium in. I never heard what the outcome was, but an old hotel was knocked down on that land site, when Coles bought the land and many people talk of a ghost of an old lady who lived there. Perhaps it was her, still there. Who knows. Only those who believe in the ghosts will ever experience an answer. I see nothing.
Red-Ink
Very Well-Known Member
How do you explain this then???
A long and very painfull labour...
moosenoose
Legendary
Mum was getting kicked to Kingdom-come :lol:
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