baby beardies dying HELP

[bluewren24]

Hi Kirby,
Before dying they have just lay down flat with their eyes closed, not lifting their heads at all. I did try to get one to take water but he ended up going into a bit of a spasm (maybe like a heart attack? But as i said, i have noticed that before death their stomachs feel larger and tighter.
I have seen one or two open their mouths as if trying to get air? (and this is just before they go for good)
Not sure if this helps but this is the type of behaviours i've witnessed.

I even tried cpr on one little dude....the same one i tried to give water to. He did seem to come a little better for a bit but then i lost him too

 

[bluewren24]

Hi Richard,

Isn't 40 too hot?? I changed globes because i thought that i might be overheating them? But i do agree that initially i think it was probably temp that caused some major problems. They do seem to be holding their heads up higher and happier since changing this, but they are still not eating?
I do mist but they do not appear to be drinking at all.... Am really worried that it may be dehydration. The odd one will put his head down and slurp off the wet log, but i don't want to make enclosure too wet either?
As i mentioned earlier, i am also trying the eye dropper and am hoping that some of them will catch on like my adults have

 

[Dave]

No 40c is fine.. mine get upto 45c basking sight (still 20ccool end) and they glow

Hi Richard,

Isn't 40 too hot?? I changed globes because i thought that i might be overheating them? But i do agree that initially i think it was probably temp that caused some major problems. They do seem to be holding their heads up higher and happier since changing this, but they are still not eating?
I do mist but they do not appear to be drinking at all.... Am really worried that it may be dehydration. The odd one will put his head down and slurp off the wet log, but i don't want to make enclosure too wet either?
As i mentioned earlier, i am also trying the eye dropper and am hoping that some of them will catch on like my adults have

 

[Kirby]

im not sure if your western beardies act or behave differently, especially when in a stressful or painful situation.

i think the problem is due to genetics, if so many are dieing. were the parents healthy, or siblings? was there a down/high temp fluctuation during invubation? were the bugs healthy?

im not entirely sure whats happening, juveniles will bloat when stressed (particular with handling) they puff up there bodies.

was it bloated from you blowing air into it? im not quite sure how you could possibly CPR a hatchling beardie.

 

[bluewren24]

Thanks Dave,

But how do you get your enclosure to have such gradients.... my whole enclosure seems to be pretty close to each other in temp...and especially in this smaller encl... i am really baffled as to what to try next.

how do you have your ventilation set up?

 

[Dave]

I keep babies in tubs.. no lid (so loads of ventilation) They're in 50L tubs (prob 60cm long not as wide) adult enclosures have vents on hot side and cool side

Thanks Dave,

But how do you get your enclosure to have such gradients.... my whole enclosure seems to be pretty close to each other in temp...and especially in this smaller encl... i am really baffled as to what to try next.

how do you have your ventilation set up?

 

[Kirby]

Thanks Dave,

But how do you get your enclosure to have such gradients.... my whole enclosure seems to be pretty close to each other in temp...and especially in this smaller encl... i am really baffled as to what to try next.

how do you have your ventilation set up?

use a small clamp lamp with a 40watt globe (20cm from the ground. 'should' do a 40C spot. lay some twigs down to climb on.

put the globe right down one end, and the other should stay cool.

any pics?

 

[bluewren24]

Lol....i just gently massaged his little chest Kirby...i didn't kiss him

I did have trouble initially with incubator but after i fixed that, i didn't have any other losses. These little dudes all hatched out fit as fiddles. The parents are healthy. The crickets looked okay and there werent any dead ones in the boxes to cause concern.

I am honestly leaning the dehydration or heating. But i may also have been their worst enemy in having changed them around too much. They are probably very confused and unsettled.
Hoping that this new enclosure will be okay size wise (as long as i can get the gradient working right)

Might have to borrow a drill off the x after all LOL

 

[bluewren24]

No pics resized yet sorry....

I have never seen any enclosures set up with the light so low down over here..... My lights are hanging from the top of the enclosure so i'd estimate 50cm from ground.... thats why i have a branch going up to the light for them to get close to heat.

Where should i be placing the thermostat probes?

 

[richardsc]

the basking area only should get to 40 or so degrees,then cooler as they move further away from it to say 22 to 24 at the cool end,if the whole cage gets to 40 u will cook them,in your small cage use the 40 watt light focasing onto the highest part of the branch and try having it to the side of the cage,that way u get a vertical temperature gradient,the bigger your cage the easier it is to vary temp gradients,a thermometre to check your temps is highly recomended,what seems hot to u may be cool to them and vice versa

 

[bluewren24]

Yes i definitely have to work on this gradient problem this w'end...It is definitely a lot harder to balance in the smaller encl.

 

[bluewren24]

If it ends up being too difficult then i will probably have to follow Dave's idea and use 50L tubs too.

This is my first ever experience with hatchlings and i am definitely finding it a huge learning curve compared to the adults (or perhaps it's like ppl have said, the larger the enclosure the easier to get the gradient temps)

My adults encl. is 1800 x 600 x 600

 

[Tsubakai]

Have they been pooping? Might be hard to tell with so many together but another possibility could be obstruction. If not, you could try warm water baths.

 

[Wild~Touch]

Just a thought ... the fake grass may be giving off toxic fumes when it gets hot

I've bred and raised hundreds of vitticeps and I found the usual cause of death is (impaction) overfeeding and crix too big...
I use no substrate at all raising them in plastic bins with plenty of twigs and flat rocks to perch on under the hot spot (40) also they like something to hide under.
The above is my opinion only...Good Luck with them
Cheers
Sandee

 

[Kirby]

the plastic will only give off fumes if it get to 70C plus (same temp thermal burns occur) at least i always thought so...

i use plastic tubs as well. no substrate. if anything for the first few days moist paper towel.

 

[dailyskin]

I really, really liked using a plastic tub when I first had Atticus! It was easy, small and secure for her, and easy to get a good 40 degree hot spot while maintaining a well ventilated cool end

I had a rock for her to sit on under her lamp up one end, paper towel on the bottom, and a water dish in the cool end. A 50 litre tub, no lid. The whole setup cost less than $30!

Now she is in her big tank and she loves it, and is also on fake grass, but I think the tubs are great for new babies!

 

[buttss66]

I agree with everyone that has suggested using a tub or tank with no lid. It is much easier to get the heat gradient right. I spent hours constructing a hinged wooden lid for a small glass tank for one of my netted dragons only to find it got very hot very quickly. Now I leave the lid open and use a 50 watt spot light and a uv tube across the top. At night I close the lid and use a 25 watt night globe (only when it's a cold night). I played around with different wattage globes to get the temps I was after.

 

[dailyskin]

I should also note - now that we have our 'big' enclosure, we still had some problems with heat gradient.

Our enclosure is 4 x 2 x 2 foot, wood and stone back and sides, glass front.

There were three vents in the back, and I could NOT get the hot spot up to 40+, because the thermostat at the cool end kept turning the heat off. We solved this by:

- Cutting 4 large ventilation holes in the roof, covered with mesh
- There were 2 60watt spotlight globes up the hot end, I took one out, and was still able to get a nice hot spot without overheating the entire tank too much.

 

[bowdnboy]

If your worried it could be dehydration, give them a nice warm shallow bath fo a few minutes every day. I find mine will sometimes have a drink while in hte water, if not theyll be soaking in some fluids through their vents.

Ive had a couple also bend up a bit and lose balance by favouring one side. I was told this was a dehydration issue with their middle ear drying out - ie losing balance. Casued by too high temperatures. Problem went away over night by bathing and misting and making sure they could get to cooler temps.

agree with others. A hot basking spot is great for appetite, as long as they have a cool area to get to. Also, try putting them outside under natural light in the sun. I often take the whole plastice container I keep mine in(has metal flywire melted onto the top to stop escapes), and place them half in the sun and half under shade outside. Ive found they get very interested in food after being out in the sun for a while, even on coolish days.

Try feeding in the same container they are housed in. can stress them sometimes by removing to other 'feed containers' and often wont eat.

Hope it goes along OK and you dont lose anymore.