"emergency egg removal"

[solar 17]

WARNING - The procedure for removal of eggs by massage is a specialist process not recommended to be undertaken by someone without significant experience and competence with this method.. This procedure is highly recommended to be only performed by a qualified veterinary professional..

I suppose l am going to get "flamed" by some people over this thread, but l have tossed it over for a couple of days and decided if it saves one snake l will be happy.
This is how l have removed possibly 80-100 eggs out of snakes that were "stuck fast"....the removal [and this is not for everybody] requires: a cropping needle [at least 6" or 15cm]16-18 gauge, a tube of KY Jelly [and yes thats a vaginal lubricant] and a 15 plus ml. syringe.
basically you fill the syringe with "KY" and bleed the air out through the cropping needle [which is now attached to the syringe] then "very gently" insert it into the cloaca very slowly sqeezing the syringe the whole time so you are lubricating as you go forward, when you come across the egg in the duct you will be able to feel your way around "the facing" head of the egg, now with a lot of care sqeeze probably 15+ ml of "jelly" around the egg, then remove your cropping needle and then externally massage "gently" and then work the egg out, but dont be afraid to use more "KY"

Repeat this proceedure for each egg "gently" massaging and working each egg out, the more eggs you have to get out the easier they will come-out, to get 10-12 eggs plus out takes about 30 minutes.
IMO and experirence only about 5% of eggs are any good even with studious removal of "the jelly" but your snake will be fine.

The snake/critter will be tired next day but in "all" cases in which l have been involved, l have followed up and they have eaten again within 72hrs
and showed absolutely "no side affect what so ever" in 100% of cases.

Now l am not opposed to surgery in a lot of cases but l believe it is "totally" not required in this instance.

Even if you dont feel confidant to talk to your vet about this proceedure it will [imo] save a costly and painfull proceedure [for your snake].

My background experience comes from approx. 40 years of crop feeding young birds[chicks] which is not for everyone but is highly effective and can and often does mean saving a life.
After seeing a friends MD with compacted eggs some 10-12 years ago and no vet for a days drive l told him about the cropping needle feed system and thought we could "adapt it" and bingo and since then at a guess l would have removed "l guess" 80-100 eggs "WITH NO" down side.

Needless to say l believe three items are an essential bit of kit 1/ a25+ml syringe 2/ KY Jelly and last but most importantly a "cropping needle" as these are excellent for bridging or holding a herps mouth open for checking and also for assisting with prolapsing as they are surgical grade stainless steel and have "no" sharp edges at all.......solar 17 [Baden]

 

[kupper]

That is sole good information there guys ..... Thanks for daring to share Baden

All you impatient newbies take note that Baden is experienced so don't try this by yourself or out of impatience for the animal to lay

 

[GeckoJosh]

That is sole good information there guys ..... Thanks for daring to share Baden

All you impatient newbies take note that Baden is experienced so don't try this by yourself or out of impatience for the animal to lay

+1, as he stated, if your not confident performing such things talk you your vet about this procedure as an alternative to surgery, dont attempt it yourself

Great post Solar, thanks for sharing your experience with us

 

[PimmsPythons]

good info. But also people should also identify when a snake is "actually" eggbound first before they rush in and do the procedure.just because its been 30 days since a prelay shed, doesn't mean they are eggbound. most of mine regulary go 30 -34 days and i've had other mates go 40 days so the prelay shed should be a guide only.also this season a friend of mine had a woma lay one egg,then almost 2 days later ,layed the other 9 with no problems.
i, personally haven't have an eggbound python ,so maybe Baden or others who have had the experience,can post some info how to determine that a snake is eggbound.
cheers
simon

 

[solar 17]

good info. But also people should also identify when a snake is "actually" eggbound first before they rush in and do the procedure.just because its been 30 days since a prelay shed, doesn't mean they are eggbound. most of mine regulary go 30 -34 days and i've had other mates go 40 days so the prelay shed should be a guide only.also this season a friend of mine had a woma lay one egg,then almost 2 days later ,layed the other 9 with no problems.
i, personally haven't have an eggbound python ,so maybe Baden or others who have had the experience,can post some info how to determine that a snake is eggbound.
cheers
simon

Simon..l personally have not had this problem once as "my personal opinion" is that its a form of dehydration "possibly" aided by poor quality frozen food in the lead up to the breeding season, but that is only my opinion and there are possibly others factors aiding in this problem, temps are another possible source l don't profess to know the answer only an "alternative" solution to the problem......solar 17 [Baden

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Excellent thread Baden! I'd just add that often it's just part of a clutch that's retained, so this technique would be very useful in that situation - the snake lays a few eggs and then the rest just don't come out. Most snakes will complete the process in a few hours at most, anything longer than that with no new eggs is worth closer scrutiny and possible action.

I believe egg retention is much more related to static captive conditions - lack of exercise and inadequate basking facilities - wild snakes have a bigger range of choices and would undoubtably move around a lot more than our captives, this in turn would lessen the chance of eggs adhering internally.

I'd also suggest that stress in captive females may have something to do with egg retention in some cases.. by this I mean keepers not giving them adequate privacy to lay and interfering with them trying to harvest each egg as its laid.. some females may handle this better than others and it would come down to individual animals.. I prefer to let them lay the clutch before I harvest the eggs for the incubator.. others dont but each to their own I guess - Colin

Jamie.

 

[PimmsPythons]

Simon..l personally have not had this problem once as "my personal opinion" is that its a form of dehydration "possibly" aided by poor quality frozen food in the lead up to the breeding season, but that is only my opinion and there are possibly others factors aiding in this problem, temps are another possible source l don't profess to know the answer only an "alternative" solution to the problem......solar 17 [Baden

Hi Baden. What i was trying to get at is when do you eventually come to the conclusion that a snake is eggbound? i had a bloke call me a month ago, all worried because it was day 30 after the prelay shed and they had already decided that she was eggbound . i told him to wait another week before taking any action and sure enough,2 days later she layed.
And also with the woma example i stated earlier.if they lay a couple eggs, then stop,how long do you wait before you get worried and start thinking eggbound. the woma went nearly 2 days. do you start getting worried after 3 or 4 days?
i agree, a video would be great as well.
cheers
simon

 

[No-two]

Snakes can be egg bound and push the eggs out themselves weeks or a month later with no problems. The problem is if the eggs go hard rather than break down, so obvisouly everyone would prefer them out (and I bet the snake aswell). This is a great thread and I think might help many people.

I'd suggest waiting at the minimum 48hours after the first or last egg is laid before taking any action for egg removal. As said above, females have began laying, stoped and resumed days later.

In saying that, I had a female woma this season that was very very big, she laid her first 5 eggs no problems and was stuck on the second last one, pushed up against the vent. It was visible the largest of all the eggs (large eggs for womas anyways, and woma eggs aren't small), she tried for several hours pushing and so forth, a friend and I helped that one out that same night, but she wasn't 'egg bound', she was just having trouble with such a large egg. Its the largest woma egg I've ever had (97grams).

 

[Jonno from ERD]

G'day Baden,

Good thread. I have also done the same thing a few times. One thing I have experienced a couple of times now is the oviduct becoming bunched up, and not allowing the eggs to pass. The remedy is simple - palpitate the eggs back up the body, taking the pressure off the oviduct blockage and allowing it to unbunch itself, lubricating with KY, and then palpitating the eggs back out.

 

[Helikaon]

Lets be honest its good information but it is also dangerous information. It is a procedure that should only be done by the owner in a emergency situation where no professional can be attained, and then should be done under instruction. Just "given it a go" is unacceptable. Although a good reptile vet can be few and far between all vet clinics would have the equipment and the knowledge or the ability to be instructed by someone who does. they can also perform such things as radiographs and needle aspirates. and any vet can do that. It may simply be an extra large egg that is the cause and then the others are fine to move. they can also use muscle relaxing drugs when doing any massaging to decrease the trauma and allow eggs to move more freely. We deffinitely need to have a better relationship with your veterinary clinic so that they know you better so that if they dont know what is wrong with your pet then they will trust your information as well. A lot will put up a wall as soon as a client says "i read on the internet". you simply cannot portray experience in writing just as all the theory in the world does not make you any good at anything but theory and practice makes you excellent