Global warming theory . . . Couldn't agree more

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So buy paying more to pollute you'll actually feel better about it? :lol: Or it gives you an excuse to continue driving your car, or flying in a plane or continue on your merry way? Either way it does nothing. Biggest brainwashing exercise by governments the world has ever seen! Who said dorks were harmless? :lol: They have the world by the proverbials!
 
So.... the carbon tax is just another excuse from the government to stick their hands in our pockets? How shockingly unsurprising.... They better send jobless people another bonus for sitting on their asses :D
 
Arguing on forums is pointless. I don't feel the need to convince you to change your mind.....
If either of these two statements is true, then please explain why the hell you bothered posting anything in the first place.

….I was merely stating my opinion, and to which you decide to insult my intelligence by calling me stupid for holding that opinion.
You are entitled to your opinion. However to express that opinion in terms of others being misled (scammed) is to belittle the physical and intellectual effort that so many put into making an informed decision on the matter. So its OK for you to belittle the intellects of others, without so much as a rational notion or fact to support your position or refute that of others, but if someone questions your intellect in making the opposite decision, then they are insulting you? Interesting perspective…. You don’t feel it might be a little lop-sided perhaps?

….If it would make any difference then maybe I would be bothered telling you why I think it is a crock of ****, but the fact is that we're controlled by the government and they will do whatever the hell they want regardless. If you choose to believe whatever is spoon fed to you then by all means go ahead.
You are correct in one respect. Given the weight of evidence for, from a vast array of respected academic researchers, anything you have to say is unlikely to sway those who have made an informed decision. However, if it is a fair and logical argument, rather than just another nebulous and nefarious conspiracy theory, it would certainly change the current view that many might have of you.
As for “being controlled by the government”… the democratic process and parliamentary representation may be far from perfect but I don’t see that it results in us being hapless and impotent.
Sadly you return to belittling people’s intellects again with the “whatever is spoon fed to you”. Oh! But that’s not an insult, is it? It is not an argument either. For future reference you may wish to take on board that belittling your opposition does nothing to add voracity to your case but it does rob you of credence.

Blue
 
I love people with solar power getting rebates from people who use coal power :lol: That's the best! Can't wait to use my new wind farm - it's hooked up to a red head with a big mouth with lots & lots of Co2 flying out of it :)
 
I'm still not convinced it's not part of a cycle. We can't expect man to live forever... nothing else on this world has... :rolleyes:
 
I'm still not convinced it's not part of a cycle. We can't expect man to live forever... nothing else on this world has... :rolleyes:

There is plenty of evidence showing it IS part of a cycle. That is not the argument here. The argument is that human activity has/is speeding up the process.
 
Something i received this morning in an email.. Not saying it is true or not, but food for thought.

I know it is "brain numbing "stuff by a Physic's scientist but at least it
gives perspective to the whole premise of "carbon emissions" and the
preposterous assumption we need a TAX to solve the perceived problem.




The first thing to note is that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas, and
plays a role in regulating planetary temperature over geological time. The
second thing to note is that the gas is a very ineffective greenhouse gas;
it is present in trace quantities and is overwhelmed by water vapour. Even
the IPCC, a body set up with the express mission of proving the carbon
dioxide hypothesis, acknowledges that the gas cannot cause global warming
without a feedback loop whereby increased heat increases water evaporation,
which in turn increases temperature.


As it is hottest at the equator, the early proponents of AGW said that the
proof of their assertions would be shown by the existence of a 'hot spot' in
the troposphere at the equator. Imagine a doughnut of hot and moist air
stretching right around the earth.


Two decades of diligent searching have failed to find the proof. The
explanation is pretty simple: there is no extra heat (and in any case it
just rains once enough moisture gets into the air).


Carbon dioxide is selective about which wavelengths of infra-red radiation
(which has been re-radiated from earth) it absorbs. It absorbs only a narrow
segment (in two parts, I seem to recall), with most of the IR energy
absorbed by water vapour. Further, it transfers the energy largely by
kinetic means: it has to knock up against another molecule, of nitrogen or
oxygen, to transfer thermal energy (this is probably not 100% true, there is
likely to be a very small radiative component but transfer is almost
entirely kinetic).


You should now do a thought experiment: visualise the physical issues
associated with kinetic energy transfer when the ratio is 4:10,000. There is
no escaping the data here. Once a molecule of the rare gas has been
energised, it has to hit something to transfer the energy, after which it
can absorb some more. Think of four black billiard balls in a jiggling box
with 9996 red ones. How would they go, transferring heat kinetically?


Do another thought experiment: visualise a narrow and vertical tube of air,
at an instant which lines up a single molecule at a time from the surface
all the way to space, a sort of vertical string of beads. There is a large
number of such tubes, and visualise a 'bolt' of re-radiated IR heading
upwards in each one. If it is lucky enough to strike a molecule of carbon
dioxide, some of it will be absorbed, but only in the right wavelength
portion. If it is lucky enough to strike another one, there will be very
little absorption because the energy which makes carbon dioxide resonate has
already been used up in our infinitesimally small tube. Visualise the whole
atmosphere made up of these tubes (you can ignore spherical trigonometry
which actually demands elongated tetrahedrons, as that does not affect the
validity of the thought experiment), and on average every 2500 molecules in
the bead you could encounter carbon dioxide. You (the 'bolt') are much more
likely to encounter water, or indeed just nitrogen or oxygen and therefore
escape to space.


This is the reason why increasing the concentration of carbon dioxide has a
diminishing return. It is just physics, it works that way, no escape - the
absorptive efficiency of carbon dioxide attenuates logarithmically in
proportion to its concentration. This is the reason why the water vapour
feedback mechanism had to be evoked to make climate computer modelling
produce the desired answers, and its absence demolishes the carbon dioxide
hypothesis.


How the world got itself into AGW hysterics, despite the physics, is another
subject entirely. I would be happy to explain that.
 
There is plenty of evidence showing it IS part of a cycle. That is not the argument here. The argument is that human activity has/is speeding up the process.
Yep. And can you stop it? I really doubt it, unless the world population is greatly reduced.... We look for cures to flu strains and disease to in fact achieve the exact opposite. Save the cheer leader, kill the world ;)
 
It is true snowman - we need to reduce population - the irony is that the world wouldn't support our current population if it wasn't for oil.
 
On top of what Foxthor just posted there is the "Highly accurate" estimates of past temperatures and weather conditions. You will note the word "Estimates". The further back in time you go the less accurate the results. We don't have any scientists travelling back in time to take highly accurate, digital thermometer readings at certain dates and in certain places and tracking these readings throughout history. These scientists also didn't use their time machine to travel into the future to take readings there either. Core samples, rock strata, carbon dating etc all have a reasonably wide range of accuracy of what they contain and the dates. Even within the last 30yrs or so the accuracy of thermometers has improved massively from alcohol and mercury to computerised digital thermometers. Even 100yrs ago they were not taking highly accurate temperature readings in every country all across the globe.

So let us now have a look at the science involved with Global warming and Carbon levels, and the fact that these same scientists are using these sketchy readings to try to "PREDICT THE FUTURE". They may be more accurate by wetting their finger and sticking it out the window, using crystal balls or getting a Tarot reading.

I may be a sceptic but I'd prefer to be a sceptic than a gullible fool.
 
Serious question then.

You are a self identified sceptic. What is all the data indicating? And why is it indicating what you believe it to be?

On top of what Foxthor just posted there is the "Highly accurate" estimates of past temperatures and weather conditions. You will note the word "Estimates". The further back in time you go the less accurate the results. We don't have any scientists travelling back in time to take highly accurate, digital thermometer readings at certain dates and in certain places and tracking these readings throughout history. These scientists also didn't use their time machine to travel into the future to take readings there either. Core samples, rock strata, carbon dating etc all have a reasonably wide range of accuracy of what they contain and the dates. Even within the last 30yrs or so the accuracy of thermometers has improved massively from alcohol and mercury to computerised digital thermometers. Even 100yrs ago they were not taking highly accurate temperature readings in every country all across the globe.

So let us now have a look at the science involved with Global warming and Carbon levels, and the fact that these same scientists are using these sketchy readings to try to "PREDICT THE FUTURE". They may be more accurate by wetting their finger and sticking it out the window, using crystal balls or getting a Tarot reading.

I may be a sceptic but I'd prefer to be a sceptic than a gullible fool.
 
All I'm trying to show is the possible inaccuracies involved in trying to ascertain scientific readings from the past and then using the + or - % results to "Predict the future". This possible future is based on "Estimates" from the past and assumes that in a static future timeline, if nothing changes, this could possibly, maybe, could be an approximation of the result.........kind of.

On these results we are running around, acting like South Park characters yelling "LOOK OUT, GLOBAL WARMING IS COMING......RUN".
 
I accept that their will be inaccuracies in the data that is available. This is ineveitable, nothing is perfect.

But i am asking what the innaccuracies mean. Do they mean that anthropic global warming is not happening? Or does it mean the predictions of the rate that anthropic global warming is effecting the globe are not as accurate as they could be?

All I'm trying to show is the possible inaccuracies involved in trying to ascertain scientific readings from the past and then using the + or - % results to "Predict the future". This possible future is based on "Estimates" from the past and assumes that in a static future timeline, if nothing changes, this could possibly, maybe, could be an approximation of the result.........kind of.

On these results we are running around, acting like South Park characters yelling "LOOK OUT, GLOBAL WARMING IS COMING......RUN".
 
The reality is that there is valid scientific evidence for both sides of the debate. No one knows for sure what is happening or why. People should remember that and get off their high horses and realise the evidence doesn't exist on either side. Just because we believe something enough and try to ram it down other people's throats doesn't make it true.
 
Don't get me wrong, I do believe that the earth is warming naturally since the last ice age and that our pollution is probably increasing that rate but I also don't think that some scientists crystal ball predictions should be sending the world into a spin with increased taxes and have everyone running around like headless chooks saying "AAAAH, We've gotta fix global warming right now or we will all die......".
 
It is true snowman - we need to reduce population - the irony is that the world wouldn't support our current population if it wasn't for oil.

Hit the nail on the head there Slim6y!

The only way to live sustainably without overtly affecting the environment is to drastically reduce the population. Which will happen eventually, either by choice or more likely catastrophe.

I find it hard to stomach a "carbon tax" to save the planet, when most governments are hell bent on increasing the population to generate more taxes and cover the cost of an ageing population.
 
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If either of these two statements is true, then please explain why the hell you bothered posting anything in the first place.

You are entitled to your opinion. However to express that opinion in terms of others being misled (scammed) is to belittle the physical and intellectual effort that so many put into making an informed decision on the matter. So its OK for you to belittle the intellects of others, without so much as a rational notion or fact to support your position or refute that of others, but if someone questions your intellect in making the opposite decision, then they are insulting you? Interesting perspective…. You don’t feel it might be a little lop-sided perhaps?

You are correct in one respect. Given the weight of evidence for, from a vast array of respected academic researchers, anything you have to say is unlikely to sway those who have made an informed decision. However, if it is a fair and logical argument, rather than just another nebulous and nefarious conspiracy theory, it would certainly change the current view that many might have of you.
As for “being controlled by the government”… the democratic process and parliamentary representation may be far from perfect but I don’t see that it results in us being hapless and impotent.
Sadly you return to belittling people’s intellects again with the “whatever is spoon fed to you”. Oh! But that’s not an insult, is it? It is not an argument either. For future reference you may wish to take on board that belittling your opposition does nothing to add voracity to your case but it does rob you of credence.

Blue

Mate you really need to put the thesaurus away. Who talks like that seriously?

You want evidence, step outside. Coldest temperatures on record in decades over the past few months. This is why the term was sneakily changed from 'global warming' to 'climate change' by the government along the line somewhere. It's not a conspiracy theory, I'm not a tin foil hat wearing fruit loop, it's just plain obvious that the whole carbon tax is just about the money, with little to do with helping the environment. If it was a serious environmental issue then we would stop exporting coal, but hang on that's also where the government gets a ****load of money. On another topic, why doesn't the government ban the sale of cigarettes? Hmm, I wonder why.
 
You want evidence, step outside. Coldest temperatures on record in decades over the past few months. This is why the term was sneakily changed from 'global warming' to 'climate change' by the government along the line somewhere.

That there is your problem. Not exactly good science is it.

It's not a conspiracy theory, I'm not a tin foil hat wearing fruit loop, it's just plain obvious that the whole carbon tax is just about the money, with little to do with helping the environment. If it was a serious environmental issue then we would stop exporting coal, but hang on that's also where the government gets a ****load of money. On another topic, why doesn't the government ban the sale of cigarettes? Hmm, I wonder why.

I agree that the carbon tax is a bit silly but again not science.
 
Mate you really need to put the thesaurus away. Who talks like that seriously?

You want evidence, step outside. Coldest temperatures on record in decades over the past few months. This is why the term was sneakily changed from 'global warming' to 'climate change' by the government along the line somewhere. It's not a conspiracy theory, I'm not a tin foil hat wearing fruit loop, it's just plain obvious that the whole carbon tax is just about the money, with little to do with helping the environment. If it was a serious environmental issue then we would stop exporting coal, but hang on that's also where the government gets a ****load of money. On another topic, why doesn't the government ban the sale of cigarettes? Hmm, I wonder why.

I don't think Bluetongue had any uncommon words in his response. However I can tell you that I know Bluetongue and he does indeed have a very extensive vocabulary. Comes from being a lecturer no doubt. :)
 
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