Kupper, let me no when no when Im always up for herping, your queerie on the absense on herp numbers in wild Vic, I see where you are coming from, I have noticed though probaly for the 10 -15 years that numbers in the wild in Vic dont seem the same as they were, I recall going to specific spots to catch specific species and finding them no worries but now days there seems to be a lot more hit and miss.