Sniperking
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i was looking at making my tank look natural and putting like trees and things in there what is the deal is it ok for the snake or what
live trees in snake tank
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Justdragons
Very Well-Known Member
yup
CaptainRatbag
Very Well-Known Member
I have heard the opposite. Live trees should be avoided. You cant tell what parasites/bugs etc are in a shrub/plant/tree, you dont know what it has been sprayed with (insecticides/fertalisers) you dont know what is in the soil (insects/fungii/fertalisers) and your humidity will go thru the roof (in the enclosure) The usual ventilation of most enclosures wouldnt be enough for the plant, so the enclosure will more than likely become humid and gassy from the plants normal 'breathing' and the high humidity would encourage fungii to grow in the soil.
Definately not a good idea in my opinion.... sorry
Definately not a good idea in my opinion.... sorry
Sniperking
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i did read that but you can not belive all the things you read thanks for the advice
JUNGLE-JAK
Well-Known Member
i have an open air enclosure im putting a thin gum tree in
junglelove
Active Member
absolutely fine i just spray with top of decent just to be sure (kills bugs) especially if you use stuff from your own garden leaf litter etc the heat lamp can burn the leaves so put them at the other end 
M
mje772003
Guest
Remember that also some plants can be poisonous too
C
Cold-B-Hearts
Guest
what will you be housing in it. pythons will kill the plants eventully unless you have a tree or something.
Bez84
Very Well-Known Member
Trick with a live tree would be to keep it alive.. as most need a strong level of uv..
As for spraying everything with top of decent to kill everything... i wouldnt go to that extreme...Believe it or not reptiles live in the bush... i know it shocked me to..
Ive always wondered if a birds nest fern or something sturdy with low light needs would work.
As for spraying everything with top of decent to kill everything... i wouldnt go to that extreme...Believe it or not reptiles live in the bush... i know it shocked me to..
Ive always wondered if a birds nest fern or something sturdy with low light needs would work.
Red-Ink
Very Well-Known Member
If your serious there's one man I would be having a chat to.....
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/diy-zone-5392/grow-plant-stuffs-can-start-184000/
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/diy-zone-5392/grow-plant-stuffs-can-start-184000/
B
Bluetongue1
Guest
CaptainRatbag,
I realise that you are not at fault here. Unfortunately you have been fed information by someone who quite simply is mistaken.
How many offices do you walk into that have live plants in them? We have a whole building of medical suites next to our local hospital and they have live plants in every foyer and hallway and almost every ante-room that I have looked into or been into. If they were as described above, I don’t think they would be sanctioned by the medical fraternity.
What about where reptiles and frogs live in trees in the wild? Do they find a spot free of all other living things? When compared to the myriad of living things found living in trees in nature, cultivated indoor plants are incredibly barren.
If strong highly soluble fertilisers are used on the surface of potting mixes this is a potential hazard to frogs. Slow-release or solutions of fertiliser present no problems when used as they should be.
Humidity from plants is governed by the humidity of the surrounding air. Plants make sure they retain essential moisture. In a sealed container with plants the humidity will build up to 100%. In a ventilated area, plants will function to minimise water loss.
Sniperking,
There are a number of threads on using live plants in enclosures. Alternatively, if you explain what reptiles or amphibians you intend to keep and what sort of enclosure, then it allows forum members with the knowledge to suggest the best species to use and how best to go about it if you have no prior experience at growing plants indoors.
Bez,
Plants do not need UV. Think about the office situation with a skylight or just fluorscent bulbs (that are non UVB producing). Birdsnest ferns actually do very well in lower light. However, they do not like to have their feet permanently wet and if not allowed to dry out a bit between watering, they will rot and die. Not surprising when you think about where the occur in nature – on tree branches/forks and rock faces.
Blue
I realise that you are not at fault here. Unfortunately you have been fed information by someone who quite simply is mistaken.
How many offices do you walk into that have live plants in them? We have a whole building of medical suites next to our local hospital and they have live plants in every foyer and hallway and almost every ante-room that I have looked into or been into. If they were as described above, I don’t think they would be sanctioned by the medical fraternity.
What about where reptiles and frogs live in trees in the wild? Do they find a spot free of all other living things? When compared to the myriad of living things found living in trees in nature, cultivated indoor plants are incredibly barren.
If strong highly soluble fertilisers are used on the surface of potting mixes this is a potential hazard to frogs. Slow-release or solutions of fertiliser present no problems when used as they should be.
Humidity from plants is governed by the humidity of the surrounding air. Plants make sure they retain essential moisture. In a sealed container with plants the humidity will build up to 100%. In a ventilated area, plants will function to minimise water loss.
Sniperking,
There are a number of threads on using live plants in enclosures. Alternatively, if you explain what reptiles or amphibians you intend to keep and what sort of enclosure, then it allows forum members with the knowledge to suggest the best species to use and how best to go about it if you have no prior experience at growing plants indoors.
Bez,
Plants do not need UV. Think about the office situation with a skylight or just fluorscent bulbs (that are non UVB producing). Birdsnest ferns actually do very well in lower light. However, they do not like to have their feet permanently wet and if not allowed to dry out a bit between watering, they will rot and die. Not surprising when you think about where the occur in nature – on tree branches/forks and rock faces.
Blue
Bez84
Very Well-Known Member
My mistake, i ment more about the high light spectrum requirement for your average tree.. a simple fluro prob wont cut it.
As for the birds nests not liking it to wet, this i know as i grow them in my horticulture classes from spores, keep them moist not water logged, though never tryed them inside... reckon they would stand up to a small reptile crawling over them and would do fine with the low light levels...and theres no mention of it being a "wet" tank so over watering shouldnt be an issue
It depends whats going in it.... lizard or snake... lizard will prob tear it apart... doubtful a snakes going to have a munch
As for the birds nests not liking it to wet, this i know as i grow them in my horticulture classes from spores, keep them moist not water logged, though never tryed them inside... reckon they would stand up to a small reptile crawling over them and would do fine with the low light levels...and theres no mention of it being a "wet" tank so over watering shouldnt be an issue
It depends whats going in it.... lizard or snake... lizard will prob tear it apart... doubtful a snakes going to have a munch
Sniperking
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It's a MD snake and I have a 5 foot glass tank that in going to enclose in wood so les heat can get out the snake is only 3 months old so it's small
would you put a layer of soil in the bottem as a base for the plant then just water it as needed i no I have to keep the humidity down so the tank will be open and I will have lights in it
would you put a layer of soil in the bottem as a base for the plant then just water it as needed i no I have to keep the humidity down so the tank will be open and I will have lights in it
B
Bluetongue1
Guest
Bez,
You are quite right. The best lights are the ones they sell for aquariums. They have a higher output in the blue and red ends of the spectrum. A reasonable skylight that does not block too much light will also do the trick. Bird’s Nest Ferns do really well indoors. I have seen them with a crown a metre wide plus having being grown indoors for five or six years.
Given the fronds are quite stiff I would not be concerned about them being damaged. Coastal carpets and GTPs are known to coil up in the centre of one and use it as a basking / resting spot. Growing ferns from spores is one of those things i have always promised myself I would try but just never got to... good luck with it!
SniperKing,
Just like maintaining reptiles, there is an art to growing plants. If you do not have prior experience then I would suggest the following method. Purchase two of each desired pot plants and then one pot for each which is without holes in the base and just slightly larger than the pot the plant is in. Put the potted plant in the sealed pot, place on the floor of the enclosure and build the substrate up to the rim of the outside pot. Put the other plant in a shaded area outside and water regularly. Every two or three weeks or so rotate the plants in your enclosure.
Do not water a plant in the enclosure. The water cannot drain and the roots may end up rotting. You can tell if a plant has adequate water by the weight of the pot. You just need to get used to feeling it when dry and then after a thorough soaking. If the soil in your plant pots becomes water repellent, the soil becomes dry and difficult to rewet. Soak it in a full bucket of water for an hour or so – the pot should be fully submerged if properly wet through – remove and allow to drain. It is then ready to go into the enclosure if you so wish.
I would suggest a Weeping Fig (Ficus benjamina) as a good starter plant for your needs. Buy one that is actually a little too large for the enclosure and then trim it back to what you want. Check out other threads on growing plants and talk it over with your local nursery staff.
Blue
You are quite right. The best lights are the ones they sell for aquariums. They have a higher output in the blue and red ends of the spectrum. A reasonable skylight that does not block too much light will also do the trick. Bird’s Nest Ferns do really well indoors. I have seen them with a crown a metre wide plus having being grown indoors for five or six years.
Given the fronds are quite stiff I would not be concerned about them being damaged. Coastal carpets and GTPs are known to coil up in the centre of one and use it as a basking / resting spot. Growing ferns from spores is one of those things i have always promised myself I would try but just never got to... good luck with it!
SniperKing,
Just like maintaining reptiles, there is an art to growing plants. If you do not have prior experience then I would suggest the following method. Purchase two of each desired pot plants and then one pot for each which is without holes in the base and just slightly larger than the pot the plant is in. Put the potted plant in the sealed pot, place on the floor of the enclosure and build the substrate up to the rim of the outside pot. Put the other plant in a shaded area outside and water regularly. Every two or three weeks or so rotate the plants in your enclosure.
Do not water a plant in the enclosure. The water cannot drain and the roots may end up rotting. You can tell if a plant has adequate water by the weight of the pot. You just need to get used to feeling it when dry and then after a thorough soaking. If the soil in your plant pots becomes water repellent, the soil becomes dry and difficult to rewet. Soak it in a full bucket of water for an hour or so – the pot should be fully submerged if properly wet through – remove and allow to drain. It is then ready to go into the enclosure if you so wish.
I would suggest a Weeping Fig (Ficus benjamina) as a good starter plant for your needs. Buy one that is actually a little too large for the enclosure and then trim it back to what you want. Check out other threads on growing plants and talk it over with your local nursery staff.
Blue
Sniperking
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Thanks mate that helps me great advice thank you every 1
CaptainRatbag
Very Well-Known Member
Plants need adequate ventilation (wind) to get rid of toxins the plant releases. In an enclosed tank/enclosure with the small vents for ventilation, I doubt there would be enough airflow to adequately ventilate the plant.
Office buildings with live plants usually (from my experience) cycle the plants. They are usually contracted to a plant supplier, who comes and changes the plants every few weeks or so, because the unnatural lighting isnt enough to keep a plant healthy. The air conditioning system in offices etc, creates wind (or at least constant air movement and extraction) which would help the plant shed its toxins. Why do you think the 'Blue Mountains' are blue? It is the gas the eucalyptus trees give off. I dont believe eucalyptus oil would do a snake much good, the gas from any plant in a confined environment wouldnt do much good for your snake either.
I myself put a cut off gum branch in one of my bigger enclosures with a spotted, and the humidity went over 98%.... I had to remove and air the branch for a few weeks before putting it back in. Too much humidity for anything but a water or gts is not good. Soil would introduce any number of fungi, bacteria etc, especially whilst damp and without adequate ventilation. Watering your live plant would only exassabate the problem. That would be why junglejack is putting a gum in an OPEN air enclosure.
I would more than strongly suggest you do further research BEFORE putting your snake at risk. Yes snakes live perfectly happy in the wild with trees around, our snakes in indoor enclosures might suffer badly and irreversably if you do.
I really wouldnt reccommend you try it, but if you do.....
All the best
Office buildings with live plants usually (from my experience) cycle the plants. They are usually contracted to a plant supplier, who comes and changes the plants every few weeks or so, because the unnatural lighting isnt enough to keep a plant healthy. The air conditioning system in offices etc, creates wind (or at least constant air movement and extraction) which would help the plant shed its toxins. Why do you think the 'Blue Mountains' are blue? It is the gas the eucalyptus trees give off. I dont believe eucalyptus oil would do a snake much good, the gas from any plant in a confined environment wouldnt do much good for your snake either.
I myself put a cut off gum branch in one of my bigger enclosures with a spotted, and the humidity went over 98%.... I had to remove and air the branch for a few weeks before putting it back in. Too much humidity for anything but a water or gts is not good. Soil would introduce any number of fungi, bacteria etc, especially whilst damp and without adequate ventilation. Watering your live plant would only exassabate the problem. That would be why junglejack is putting a gum in an OPEN air enclosure.
I would more than strongly suggest you do further research BEFORE putting your snake at risk. Yes snakes live perfectly happy in the wild with trees around, our snakes in indoor enclosures might suffer badly and irreversably if you do.
I really wouldnt reccommend you try it, but if you do.....
All the best
B
Bluetongue1
Guest
Where do you get the idea that plants give off toxins into the air? The eucalyptus oils released from gums is strong enough to scent the air but the birds and bats still wing their way through the thick of it, no problems. Possums, gliders, koalas etc and a myriad of invertebrates eat the stuff in with the leaves! We are not talking distilled and concentrated and put into a bottle type strength. Its like salt – if you don’t have any you get sick; if you have too much or it’s too concentrated it also makes you sick.
If plants gave out toxins, cycling them would make no difference. Whether they have been in a half a hour or two weeks, they are still going to be giving out the same stuff. Ring your local botanical gardens or trained professional horticulturist if you don’t believe me and the millions of people who grow plants indoors and the billions of animals that live in them.
With correct technique, fungal and bacterial growth is not a problem. The hyphae and bacterial cells require constant moisture to grow - a big reason why potting mixes are designed to be free draining. The nature of the materials in the mix and the air-filled porosity are also important in tis respect. Take a look in shade house in Woolies or Bunnings or better still, go to the local nursery and see how many pots you can find crawling with fungi. Then go and have a look in the bush in the leaf litter after a week of rain or near a lake or creek etc. Reptiles don’t require a sterile environment, just a clean one.
Green cut timber cannot control its moisture loss, whereas a living plant can. What was the moisture level generated from a decent sized water bowl place in the same spot as the branch
There are some garden plants that are considered toxic. This is because of the chemicals they contain. None of there would be suitable for enclosure but there are hundreds of plants that would. Please don’t take my biological background and 30 or so years worth of experience in growing plants for a hobby as gospel. As suggested above, valid it with an expert.
.
Blue
If plants gave out toxins, cycling them would make no difference. Whether they have been in a half a hour or two weeks, they are still going to be giving out the same stuff. Ring your local botanical gardens or trained professional horticulturist if you don’t believe me and the millions of people who grow plants indoors and the billions of animals that live in them.
With correct technique, fungal and bacterial growth is not a problem. The hyphae and bacterial cells require constant moisture to grow - a big reason why potting mixes are designed to be free draining. The nature of the materials in the mix and the air-filled porosity are also important in tis respect. Take a look in shade house in Woolies or Bunnings or better still, go to the local nursery and see how many pots you can find crawling with fungi. Then go and have a look in the bush in the leaf litter after a week of rain or near a lake or creek etc. Reptiles don’t require a sterile environment, just a clean one.
Green cut timber cannot control its moisture loss, whereas a living plant can. What was the moisture level generated from a decent sized water bowl place in the same spot as the branch
There are some garden plants that are considered toxic. This is because of the chemicals they contain. None of there would be suitable for enclosure but there are hundreds of plants that would. Please don’t take my biological background and 30 or so years worth of experience in growing plants for a hobby as gospel. As suggested above, valid it with an expert.
.
Blue
CaptainRatbag
Very Well-Known Member
Ventilation blue...... outside is fine...... a living plant has to give off the waste from photosynthasys..... if it is inclosed in a vivarium with the usual ventilation, the air in the viv will become polluted with the waste from the plant and the humidity will sky rocket.
Plants in office buildings are rotated with fresh plants on a time scale, because, like turf rolled up for transport, plants/grass/turf will survive unsatisfactory environments for a certain amount of time... then they need to recoup in the correct environment (turf be unrolled and layed, office plants put out in sunlight/fresh air)
The OP can do what he likes, if his pythons suffer or die from your advice, I hope you will be satisfied with yourself. My opinion is dont use live plants in enclosed snake environments for the reasons given. You say go ahead, it is fine..... I hope we dont find a thread on here in a few months from the op, saying his snake has scale rot, mites etc
I do agree, the op needs to validate both sides of the arguement..... But he must state that the plant (s) will be inside a vivarium with a living creature, and describe whatever ventilation it has/will have and that high humidity is to be avoided in this enclosed environment.
I for one will be eager to hear what the op finds out and will look forward to updates, as I am sure you will also Blue
Plants in office buildings are rotated with fresh plants on a time scale, because, like turf rolled up for transport, plants/grass/turf will survive unsatisfactory environments for a certain amount of time... then they need to recoup in the correct environment (turf be unrolled and layed, office plants put out in sunlight/fresh air)
The OP can do what he likes, if his pythons suffer or die from your advice, I hope you will be satisfied with yourself. My opinion is dont use live plants in enclosed snake environments for the reasons given. You say go ahead, it is fine..... I hope we dont find a thread on here in a few months from the op, saying his snake has scale rot, mites etc
I do agree, the op needs to validate both sides of the arguement..... But he must state that the plant (s) will be inside a vivarium with a living creature, and describe whatever ventilation it has/will have and that high humidity is to be avoided in this enclosed environment.
I for one will be eager to hear what the op finds out and will look forward to updates, as I am sure you will also Blue
B
Bluetongue1
Guest
Photosynthesise = carbon dioxide + water + sunlight energy (absorbed by chlorophyll A & B) ----> oxygen + glucose sugar. The reverse process, called respiration, is also taking place 24 hours a day, the rate of which governs the metabolism of the plant. The reason plants give off water to the atmosphere is they need to allow carbon dioxide into their leaves. Gasses must be dissolved before they can cross the cell membrane so there is a layer of moisture over the interior cavities of the leaf = mainly the spongy mesophyll cell layer but also the bottom of the palisade cell layer, in which the chloroplasts are located. So humidity diffuses out of the pores when they are open. It is the same reason every breath you breathe or any land animal breathes out is 100% humid.
Plants are able to both regulate the opening of their stomates and alter the number present in new leaves, according to environmental conditions. If grown under conditions where water is limited, the number of stomata per leaf area is reduced. The plant is said to be hardened off. This is an important process in growing plants indoors.
Surrounding the stomatal pores are two sausage shaped cells called guard cells. In dry conditions these cells readily lose water, becoming flaccid and collapse in on each other due to their shape. In other words, they close the stomate so no more water can be lost from the leaf through that aperture. Plants that have access to a continuous supply of water do not need to do that. Those will limited access, such as indoor potted plants watered once a fortnight but not left sitting in water, will close down their stomata regularly. Indoor plants also experience reduced light conditions to outside and so are not able to photosynthesise as much as plants in bright light and therefore will not open their pores as often or for as long.
Tree like eucalypts on the eastern coast have their roots permanently into ground water and so can photosynthesis most of the day with sufficient sunlight. It also explains why their leaves give off a lot of moisture. Look at the structure of the tree above ground, double or treble it, while stretching it out. That will give you an idea of the root system on these things.
I don’t want to be correcting anybody. However I know this stuff inside out. I taught Biology and also Horticulture at one of the schools I worked at. I wrote the course and the lesson plans and the assessments. I designed the shade house and equipment areas and with the help of the other science staff and a local Rotary Club, we built it. It is something I do know something about. However, I would much rather be imparting information on suitable plants to use and why, or suitable potting mixes and watering regimes etc.
Blue
Plants are able to both regulate the opening of their stomates and alter the number present in new leaves, according to environmental conditions. If grown under conditions where water is limited, the number of stomata per leaf area is reduced. The plant is said to be hardened off. This is an important process in growing plants indoors.
Surrounding the stomatal pores are two sausage shaped cells called guard cells. In dry conditions these cells readily lose water, becoming flaccid and collapse in on each other due to their shape. In other words, they close the stomate so no more water can be lost from the leaf through that aperture. Plants that have access to a continuous supply of water do not need to do that. Those will limited access, such as indoor potted plants watered once a fortnight but not left sitting in water, will close down their stomata regularly. Indoor plants also experience reduced light conditions to outside and so are not able to photosynthesise as much as plants in bright light and therefore will not open their pores as often or for as long.
Tree like eucalypts on the eastern coast have their roots permanently into ground water and so can photosynthesis most of the day with sufficient sunlight. It also explains why their leaves give off a lot of moisture. Look at the structure of the tree above ground, double or treble it, while stretching it out. That will give you an idea of the root system on these things.
I don’t want to be correcting anybody. However I know this stuff inside out. I taught Biology and also Horticulture at one of the schools I worked at. I wrote the course and the lesson plans and the assessments. I designed the shade house and equipment areas and with the help of the other science staff and a local Rotary Club, we built it. It is something I do know something about. However, I would much rather be imparting information on suitable plants to use and why, or suitable potting mixes and watering regimes etc.
Blue
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