Merauke (Australian) Chondro

[Reptilia]

Just looking around at some sites I occasionally go to and found this from 'signal herpetoculture'

'Pure Merauke 50% possible heterozygous albino captive born and bred by Trooper Walsh.'

'The sire to this animal is Trooper's pure Merauke heterozygous albino and the dam was a pure Merauke owned by Tim Morris. This animal has a 50% possibility of carrying the albino gene. He is fully mature and ready to breed now. If you want to get into the albino chondro project here is a way to possibly get started immediately. No waiting on possible het hatchlings to produce in a few years.'

Asking $16,000.00 US

Payment plans considered. International orders accepted. Full documentation provided.

A shame that we couldnt import one of our own...

After reading greg maxwell's 'the value of locality specimens'
From my understanding...
aru, irian jaya, sorong and biak are the indonesian/papua guinea locality.
Merauke the australian locality of the green tree python.

Anyway, I really just wanted to know how they detremine if it is a 'pure merauke'. Does the history of this green tree have to be recorded all the way back to its original parents?. And for the offspring off this snake to remain pure merauke, would it also have to mate with a female merauke and continue the bloodline... or inbreed?.

International orders accpeted. Of course no 1 in australia can purchase them... but what about zoo's and the ARP. Would it be possible for them to purchase it?

Trying to get my brain around this whole locality thing ... Cheers.

 

[Morelia_Hunter]

And do you know what the chances are of getting an albino out of that clutch? Go try and work it out!

 

[NoOne]

Merauke is a local in PNG the original animals from this line were wild collected from PNG

The line is only 3 or 4 generations old.

 

[yommy]

Impressive looking snake though, one can always dream.........

 

[Reptilia]

Out of the first clutch (eg 25) it is most likely that at least 1-3 will obtain the recessive trait . albino = g recessive. green = G domninant. But yes... without a female with the albino trait, none of the offspring can become albino. The male can only be GG or Gg. Therfore only mating with a female Gg or gg(Albino) could offspring become albino. So hence you would need a heterozygous female with the albino trait or a homzygous albino green tree python to successfully have a clutch with a few albino offspring. That about right Morelia?

dugadugabowbow, i was unsure whether the merauke form was purely australian. and now i no it isnt. so cheers for that.

 

[toxinologist]

Merauke is actually in West Papua (Indonesia's 'Irian Jaya'), not Papua New Guinea. The snake looks no different to any of the South Fly District GTP's that I've caught. I believe that phylogenetic analysis places these snakes alongside the Cape York populations.

Locally, they are sold by villagers for around K10.00 - A$4.40!

Cheers


David

 

[peterescue]

Thats interesting, so If I went to say the US and tried to buy offspring of Aussie GTPs I'd probably end up with IJ/PNG ones but they would be close enough to the current captive population as to be almost undetectable???????????
"Starts organising large ocean going cruiser with incubation facilities)

 

[Rossagon]

Why wouldn't ya take a trip to PNG? $4.40 each is alot cheaper than a large ocean going cruiser!!! LOL.


p.s I in no way condone smuggling of wildlife for those of you who take these things seriously!!!

 

[flavirufus]

so If I went to say the US and tried to buy offspring of Aussie GTPs I'd probably end up with IJ/PNG ones but they would be close enough to the current captive population as to be almost undetectable???????????

At the risk of getting shouted down by the psuedo-experts on this site... You'd be unlikely to find any genuine Aussie GTPs available in the US (though I'm not saying they don't possible exist over there). Merauke's are the genetically closest to Aussie GTPs, of the forms that are established in captivity. However, I would consider them far from "undetectable" when compared to true Aussie. For starters, they don't look the same and that, combined with minor genetic differences, would give you a fair chance of distinguishing between pure specimens (though not necessarily in a way that would hold up in a court of law).
Matt

 

[Reptilia]

Edit from previous post. ^

From this snake it is possible to get albino offspring through inbreeding. If the snake has indeed got the albino trait, mind you theirs a 1 in 2 chance it does, then for the first mating with a normal green tree python (GG) in its first generation, it would carry a few offspring with the code Gg. From the F1 generation taking two of the snakes that have Gg, (Gg 1 male and 1 female which has to be viewed by a geneticist to be sure they do contain the trait). At least 20 per cent of the offspring from these parents (the F1 Gg Male and Female) will be gg(albino homozygous) and the rest Gg (Green heterozygous recessive) or GG (Green Homozygous dominant). Meaning that if your lucky youll have an albino snake in a few years. But even then it is not known if it will die or even if it does carrry the albino trait. Would you take the chance of buying a snake that has a 50 per cent chance of having the albino trait?

 

[peterescue]

what about the pseudo experts matt. good way to make a point, belittle any opposing view before its made but your final bit basically gets to the point of my little fanatasy.

 

[flavirufus]

good way to make a point, belittle any opposing view before its made

Just a bit of a hangover from a previous thread. Don't really have the inclination to get into an arguement over it.

 

[peterescue]

I suppose I have to bend to your side somewhat. Matt. Considering the wealth of knowledge available on line about GTPs in Australia. :roll:

 

[GetCoiled]

Hi to all guys, my name is Stefano, almost a lurker of this site as I consider myself a ?learning student? of the Aussie pythons?a silent one in his corner?LOL! May be this time I could write something of interest for you as I?m very fond of GTP and I?ve published something about their localities and morphs. Let?s start answering to Reptilia
1) Anyway, I really just wanted to know how they detremine if it is a 'pure merauke'. Does the history of this green tree have to be recorded all the way back to its original parents?.
RE: yes for some fairly new localities there are sort of records in which you can track down the roots of your CB specimens till the WC founders?this is, with the phenotype looking and some other locality data, the only proof of the purity of the lineage. Some Indo herp-farms are particularly involved in this kind of locality breeding project.

2) And for the offspring off this snake to remain pure merauke, would it also have to mate with a female merauke and continue the bloodline... or inbreed?.
RE: yes absolutely, imbreeding is the only chance when you have just a couple of specimens from a date locality and you do not want to crossbred with a different one. In those last years some phylogenetic analysis is determining different clades for different localities (i.e. the Southern and the Northern populations of PNG), with some chance that one day some of them will be recognized as separate subspecies.

3) but what about zoo's and the ARP. Would it be possible for them to purchase it?
RE: I think your zoos already have non-Aussie fauna?No?

then?

David is completely right: Rawlings and Donnellan (2003) place Meraukes alongside the Cape York populations (Southern race).

Matt is right too: there NO Aussie GTP in the USA (and so in Europe?.I think) and there are some differences in adults between Meraukes and Aussie GTP: the first one is the pattern that both take concentrated along the dorsal line. Well, in the Meraukes that is almost clear white, in the Aussie yellowish or greenish?

Sorry for my poor English?I hope to have been fairly ?understandable?!

Cheers to all

Stefano

 

[olivehydra]

Hi to all guys, my name is Stefano, almost a lurker of this site as I consider myself a ?learning student? of the Aussie pythons?a silent one in his corner?LOL! May be this time I could write something of interest for you as I?m very fond of GTP and I?ve published something about their localities and morphs. Let?s start answering to Reptilia
1) Anyway, I really just wanted to know how they detremine if it is a 'pure merauke'. Does the history of this green tree have to be recorded all the way back to its original parents?.
RE: yes for some fairly new localities there are sort of records in which you can track down the roots of your CB specimens till the WC founders?this is, with the phenotype looking and some other locality data, the only proof of the purity of the lineage. Some Indo herp-farms are particularly involved in this kind of locality breeding project.

2) And for the offspring off this snake to remain pure merauke, would it also have to mate with a female merauke and continue the bloodline... or inbreed?.
RE: yes absolutely, imbreeding is the only chance when you have just a couple of specimens from a date locality and you do not want to crossbred with a different one. In those last years some phylogenetic analysis is determining different clades for different localities (i.e. the Southern and the Northern populations of PNG), with some chance that one day some of them will be recognized as separate subspecies.

3) but what about zoo's and the ARP. Would it be possible for them to purchase it?
RE: I think your zoos already have non-Aussie fauna?No?

then?

David is completely right: Rawlings and Donnellan (2003) place Meraukes alongside the Cape York populations (Southern race).

Matt is right too: there NO Aussie GTP in the USA (and so in Europe?.I think) and there are some differences in adults between Meraukes and Aussie GTP: the first one is the pattern that both take concentrated along the dorsal line. Well, in the Meraukes that is almost clear white, in the Aussie yellowish or greenish?

Sorry for my poor English?I hope to have been fairly ?understandable?!

Cheers to all

Stefano

Im the first to admit about knowing bugger all about GTP, but I find it surprising to hear that people believe that there are not any australian gtp in overseas collection. Surely there must be some, through both legal and illegal avenues?

 

[GetCoiled]

It is not so strange...really! Consider that some years ago there were only 4 specimens of Aussie scrub (Morelia kinghorny) in the USA and only one or two in private collection...I know as contributors of some my writings herp-GTP-fellows as Maxwell, Barker, Walsh and so on, and I can assure you that "formally" there are no Aussie GTP in USA. Illegal avenues are another kind of things and I'm not able to answer you...

Cheers

Stefano

 

[NCHERPS]

Hi to all guys, my name is Stefano, almost a lurker of this site as I consider myself a ?learning student? of the Aussie pythons?a silent one in his corner?LOL! May be this time I could write something of interest for you as I?m very fond of GTP and I?ve published something about their localities and morphs. Let?s start answering to Reptilia
1) Anyway, I really just wanted to know how they detremine if it is a 'pure merauke'. Does the history of this green tree have to be recorded all the way back to its original parents?.
RE: yes for some fairly new localities there are sort of records in which you can track down the roots of your CB specimens till the WC founders?this is, with the phenotype looking and some other locality data, the only proof of the purity of the lineage. Some Indo herp-farms are particularly involved in this kind of locality breeding project.

2) And for the offspring off this snake to remain pure merauke, would it also have to mate with a female merauke and continue the bloodline... or inbreed?.
RE: yes absolutely, imbreeding is the only chance when you have just a couple of specimens from a date locality and you do not want to crossbred with a different one. In those last years some phylogenetic analysis is determining different clades for different localities (i.e. the Southern and the Northern populations of PNG), with some chance that one day some of them will be recognized as separate subspecies.

3) but what about zoo's and the ARP. Would it be possible for them to purchase it?
RE: I think your zoos already have non-Aussie fauna?No?

then?

David is completely right: Rawlings and Donnellan (2003) place Meraukes alongside the Cape York populations (Southern race).

Matt is right too: there NO Aussie GTP in the USA (and so in Europe?.I think) and there are some differences in adults between Meraukes and Aussie GTP: the first one is the pattern that both take concentrated along the dorsal line. Well, in the Meraukes that is almost clear white, in the Aussie yellowish or greenish?

Sorry for my poor English?I hope to have been fairly ?understandable?!

Cheers to all

Stefano

Im the first to admit about knowing bugger all about GTP, but I find it surprising to hear that people believe that there are not any australian gtp in overseas collection. Surely there must be some, through both legal and illegal avenues?

I have to agree with 'Getcoiled' on this one, I know of no European or US breeder/keepers that have ever claimed to have Aussie GTP's, and believe me, if they thought they had them, you would get to hear about it.

There are of course your reclusive hide away rich hermit types that might have gone the illegal route to acquire them, but that would be something that they wouldn't talk about and make public.

Neil

 

[olivehydra]

It is not so strange...really! Consider that some years ago there were only 4 specimens of Aussie scrub (Morelia kinghorny) in the USA and only one or two in private collection...I know as contributors of some my writings herp-GTP-fellows as Maxwell, Barker, Walsh and so on, and I can assure you that "formally" there are no Aussie GTP in USA. Illegal avenues are another kind of things and I'm not able to answer you...

Cheers

Stefano

Maybe just a coincidence, but I thought the figure of four aussie specimens was in regards to jungle pythons, as stated by Barker? I think in a recent post by pilbarapythons there was talk of Irwin sending tully gtp OS?

 

[GetCoiled]

Yes, I can confirm you that in 1978 (?) the VERY first buch of jungles coming into the States was formed by four specimens...

Once (in the end of the '90) I found in Gemany a price list in which were priced "Australians" with other PNG localities as well...I talked personally with the dealer and he pold me that he classed "Aussie GTP" the Merauke ones because "they were VERY close in shape...". Too bad!

Cheers

Stefano