Questions about venom

[Elapidae1]

Not all toxins = bad, where would modern medicine be without toxins.

 

[Crystal..Discus]

Toxins when ingested, injected, or through other methods when introduced to the body without understanding = bad.

 

[pythons73]

Well the man who told me these myths is the same idiot who said feeding snakes wet food is deadly to them

I quess you shouldnt listen to his crap then...

 

[beeman]

Well the man who told me these myths is the same idiot who said feeding snakes wet food is deadly to them

May i ask as to why you are still listening to his advise ?

 

[snakeluvver]

May i ask as to why you are still listening to his advise ?

I'm not. He knows nothing. What's more, he owns 40 snakes and is "apparently" a herpetologist. A pretty crap one!

 

[PhilK]

Lot of half truths stated as fact, also a lot of uneducated comments. Most sensible thing stated in this thread was to treat all bites with a hospital visit. There is enough snake myths going around as it is. I would hate to here of someone coming unstuck because they took a venom myth or even half truth as gospel

Instead of poo-pooing everyone else would you care to correct us so the myths don't keep spreading?

It would depend on the venom, most venoms are adapted to be used for envenomation rather than poisoning by ingestion, but i would be extremely suprised if all venoms are safe to drink (assuming it doesnt soak into cuts etc.). IMO the idea of all venoms being safe to drink is an urban myth. Some snake venoms are harmful when inhaled as dry dust.

The inhalation of dust isn't the same as drinking it.. the mucous membranes of the nose will take up the venom into the blood system as they're very fragile (same way cocaine works up the nose). The gut hasn't got those properties.

I wasn't arguing that you can't drink small amounts - I was arguing that drinking a litre of snake venom is not a good thing. Especially if it's a hemotoxin. Our bodies can only break down so much protein before the kidneys start failing...

Kidneys don't break down protein, but if you have high protein in your blood they can fail from trying to excrete too much of it.. the gut breaks down protein to be absorbed as smaller molecules into the blood. If the gut's capacity to do so is exceeded then it ends up in your poop. So from what I can see (and I'm not saying I'm right, I'd like to be proven otherwise if someone knows for sure) it should be fine to guzzle venom ... not that I would ever do it, that's stupid.

 

[JasonL]

I'd like some elaboration too!! I know someone who has a number of RBB bites & then got scratched by a baby Adder- with little effect. How come they survived?

I know blokes who consider bites from baby adders as nothing other than a sore finger, and would not even consider going to hospital for a RBB bite, and ride out bites from adult adders at home on the lounge, .. sure, these people may be on borrowed time but it happens more than you would think. Some people panic when they get biten by a whip snake and rush off to hospital and some people are quite "experienced" in snake bites and sit at home and wait to see how bad it gets before they do much about it. Everyone has different effects to various venoms and every bite is different for various reasons. It's important to realise you can die from ANY venom and some will leave permanent damage to your body and it's best not to play with dangerous snakes if you never plan on being bitten, very few people get through an addiction with elapids without being bitten by something...

 

[Elapidae1]

Instead of poo-pooing everyone else would you care to correct us so the myths don't keep spreading?

I am not qualified or experienced enough to correct people, but I consider myself wise enough to see through most of the poo poo, as you put it, that gets posted on this forum.
I also wasn't trying to poopoo anyone just pointing out that myths and half facts can have consequences, as for your statement that you should be able to drink venom, I think that is wrong , some venoms yes others no, as I pointed out earlier venoms are still poisons.

 

[percey39]

The answer to the original questions is No and No, but i would like to add that i have personally had 2 shots of cobra venom whilst in Thailand and staying with a hill tribe. It was there way of saying thanks for staying and helping them.
Tastes crap but im still here!!!

 

[PhilK]

I am not qualified or experienced enough to correct people, but I consider myself wise enough to see through most of the poo poo, as you put it, that gets posted on this forum.
I also wasn't trying to poopoo anyone just pointing out that myths and half facts can have consequences, as for your statement that you should be able to drink venom, I think that is wrong , some venoms yes others no, as I pointed out earlier venoms are still poisons.

Well could you point out the myths and half truths then so we don't believe them?

Also, your last sentence is the entire point... venoms AREN'T poisons. They are venoms. Poisons are poisons

The reason you can be envenomated by inhaling venom dust or, say, getting cobra venom spat in your eye, is because it is absorbed into the blood stream from these sites... it is NOT absorbed into the bloodstream from the gut like that - that isn't how the gut works. It has to be broken down by enzymes to be passed into the blood stream, and by then it is harmless.

 

[Elapidae1]

Like I said My Chambers dictionary defines Venom as a poisonous liquid that some creatures, eg, snakes and scorpions inject in a bite or sting.therefore the entire point is, it is a poison just delivered differently, It may be safe to ingest some venoms/poisons but I wouldn't want to be the Guinea pig testing them all, I'm sure one would end up fitting the bill for your definition of poison.

 

[cris]

The reason you can be envenomated by inhaling venom dust or, say, getting cobra venom spat in your eye, is because it is absorbed into the blood stream from these sites... it is NOT absorbed into the bloodstream from the gut like that - that isn't how the gut works. It has to be broken down by enzymes to be passed into the blood stream, and by then it is harmless.

Its actually poisoning in such cases, rather than envenomation.

By basic definition venom is poison(look in any dictionary), but in biology its generally prefered to avoid calling venomous animals poisonous. A good example to demonstate the differance is a Spitting Cobra its poisonous when it spits toxin, but venomous when it bites and envenomates in both cases its still the same poisonous/toxic substance but the delivery determines if it is envenomation or not. It would be fair to say its impossible to get envenomated by drinking venom, but it could potentially poison you(maybe?).

Wouldnt it be possible to absorb venom through the lining in your mouth or something else before it reaches the gut?

 

[PhilK]

Valid points on the definition I hadn't thought of that really... I don't know if the lining in your mouth is that sensitive.. Swilling vodka around and then spitting it out won't get you drunk, so it seems like there's not a whole lot of absorption there.. but I guess it depends on the substance too because chewing tobacco delivers nicotine.. though I think that works by abrading the membranes in your mouth. Maybe I should procrastinate studying sheep medicine and go on a search for some sort of material addressing this hahaha

 

[the jungle guy]

mmmm... Venom fights *eats popcorn*

rofl

 

[bucky]

when i wrote that statement i wasnt expecting anyone to go and drink venom. as i said in "theory" this can be done from my understanding. next time ill just shut up and not give my information of what i have read and studied. but thanks for everyone elses interpretations.

 

[snakeluvver]

Well keep it like this, just don't drink venom. Lol I know someone who got venom spat in his mouth by a cobra apparently it tastes like 20 year old fermented lemon thats been left to grow in somebody's old armpit.

 

[moosenoose]

I think peoples biggest concern is to forget the venom aspect of it all, it's your own bodies immunity that'll kill you faster in relation to anaphylaxis. That's worse IMHO than any snake venom! Certainly it'll kill you waaaaay faster! A gradual build up of little mistakes, inhaling dust etc when cleaning out venomous snake enclosures, dust on the cuts in your hand etc all contributes to a silent time bomb!..... From what I understand that is

 

[Asharee133]

Well keep it like this, just don't drink venom. Lol I know someone who got venom spat in his mouth by a cobra apparently it tastes like 20 year old fermented lemon thats been left to grow in somebody's old armpit.

and he knows what that tastes like HOW?? O.O lol

 

[snakeluvver]

and he knows what that tastes like HOW?? O.O lol

Well he's a very odd man so I wouldn't be surprised....
By the way I took a visit to the guy who told me all these myths, and he has added one to the list. I don't know if it's true or not, but I don't think so. He said venomous snakes are immune to their own venom. Is that true?