She's pregnant, but she's a man

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Szepp if you truly beleve that sexuality is a choice then choose to be gay or bi for a day in your life.

The same as you can not make yourself attracted to men, people who identify as gay can not make themselves not attracted to people of the same sex.

It is not a choice and there is nothing wrong with it.
 
Congrats on winning the flaming war there with some really compelling arguments RBB. Step away from your keyboard snipering for a minute and think to yourself, 'why can only a man and a woman pro-create?' Does Szepp's argument now seem out of wack?
 
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Congrats on winning the flaming war there with some really compelling arguments RBB. Step away from your keyboard snipering for a minute and think to yourself, 'why can only a man and a woman pro-create?' Does Szepp's argument now seem out of wack?

Tell that to the Bynoe's gekoes. Now who's argument is whack!?
 
What about couples who can't conceive?

If they were born that way, does that mean nature did not intend for them to have children? And therefore they should not be able to pursue other avenues (IVF, adoption etc)?

I'm failing to see the logic here.
 
Think of it as natural population control.
 
I mean heterosexual, man/woman couples - just to clarify.
 
yea the thing is
were not geckos
were human
the females are the ones with the womb etc for a reason
that person didnt wana be a female
so i dont see why he should have kids...
i dont have a problem with that as much
its the fact that the poor kid is goin to be damn confused as hell growing up
 
the females are the ones with the womb etc for a reason


But this is where you come up against the argument of infertile hetero couples - if someone can't conceive naturally because of a medical condition, should they be denied the chance to have kids because it "not natural"?

In general I don't have a problem with gay couples having kids, but as I said in my first post on this topic - I do have a problem with the "chopping and changing" between genders that this person is engaging in...
 
Jess the difference there is that it is un natural to be infertile in the first place, concieving with ivf is just doing whats should have been available naturally to the couple..

In my opinion gay couples having kids is rather selfish. The kids are going to get ripped on in school, i know they shouldn't but lets face it they are... And as has been said it just isn't natural, doesn't matter how long 2 women scissor each other ( South Park reference:lol:) they aren't gonna get pregnant same goes with 2 guys...

Ben
 
I have not one prob with gays i just want this clear before anyone thinks im some homophobe or what ever u call it

i just think that the poor kids going to grow up and get alot of crap frm people and be confused... so i dont no if i think its ok or not to be honest because everyone should have a right to have a family

but i do think its unfair on the kids u no ...
 
gays don't intrinsically have psychological issues (i would assume), it's not 'part of the turf', and if it were a choice why would they choose to be so?
but wait, what about pedophilia? is that a choice?
as for this couple's kid, in a perfect world it could grow up fine, but sadly this isn't so, and he may suffer at the hands of the majority. why didn't they just adopt? maybe they wanted a media circus? $$$$

...or is it a hoax?
 
I am afraid that because i don't subscribe to the current political correct attitude to homosexuality i am frowned upon. I strongly believe no one has the right to tell anyone else how to live their life (except for serial killers, thieves, and pedophiles as Leigh stated etc etc), however i believe everyone should be free to have an opinion and be allowed to express it to anyone willing to listen. I also think we are all being manipulated by the media, schools etc into thinking a prescribed way to some extent or another. And political correctness is a powerful tool for this. ie if you rationally try criticize some aspect of homosexuality you are branded "homophobic" or if you criticize apartheid and atrocities in Israel you are branded anti-semitic, regardless. whether it is a fair or unfair criticism. I think there are some compelling arguments against homosexuals adopting and having children, also some for them doing so.

I don't know much about most things but i do know a little about zoology and evolution. If you think about it logically :- if there was a homosexual gene in a population it would be naturally dissipate as their genes would be less likely to be inherited by the next generation, and over time it would all but disappear. Relatively speaking not many things are 100% genetic or 100% environmental as there is usually one kind of ratio between genetic/culture-environment or another ie some are 50/50 , 95/5 etc. And for the people who don't like what i am thinking and saying and casually dismiss my argument because it threatens them in some way by saying i am talking poop, then do a google or yahoo search for "homosexual gene" and you will see a huge list of newspaper and scientific reports completely dismissing this idea. Most homosexuals and everybody would like to have there lives justified by genetics or gods or something rather than accept responsibility for it themselves, hence why there was some bad "science" trying to say that there is a "gay gene". You can believe this if you want it is your choice, i prefer to listen to 99% of unbiased geneticists rather than randomly choose to believe in a myth.

Instead of sating "i don't know what i am talking about" try do some research yourself, read some scientific papers or at very least do a google search or read this like i found that gives a very good overview and names of the ropey scientists and their flawed methods that invented this myth:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28505

I also agree that homosexuals don't necessarily have psychological problems, just through various life experiences they choose their lifestyle, whether it was consciously or subliminally , however absolutely everything when it is taken to the extreme becomes dangerous and should be questioned. Getting extremely invasive surgery that leaves scars and disfigures and leaves the person not quite male and not quite female is highly questionable. And i can guarantee that some of them can be helped with a psychiatrist rather than a surgeon. I bet if you asked a million sane people if they would prefer to have a loving mother and father or a loving mother and semi-mother/father inbetweeny, what would most or all say?

Before when i was talking about some things being irrefutably real and other thing being unreal, it is hard to make sense as we dont have words and the language to talk about it unlike Asian Indians and Chinese, Japanese and even north American indians and probably many others i don't know. ie
Toa vs manifestations
Nagual vs Tonal
I don't know the Hindi maybe arhatship vs samsara ?
etc etc It is therefore easy for us to dismiss what i was trying to say as we don't even have the language to discuss it properly. But my argument is that homosexuality is part of the tonal or the myriad of manifestations or the samsara. If i used the word "toa" or Nagual , most people would not understand and some would think i am a religious nutter hehe. I utterly despise organized religions but have nothing but respect for spiritual people following their own spiritual path be it Buddhist, Hindi, gnostic Christians and any other gnostics. There is a BIG difference between religious and spiritual, organized religions = "He who joyfully marches to music rank and file, has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake,since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice."

The Toa that can be followed is not the eternal Toa,
The name that can be named is not the eternal name.
The nameless is the origin of heaven and earth
While naming is the origin of the myriad of things.
Therefore, always desireless, you see the mystery
Ever desiring, you see the manifestations.
These two are the same--
When they appear they are named differently.

The sameness is the mystery,
Mystery within mystery;

The door to all marvels



Two men were arguing about a flag flapping in the wind. "It's the wind that is really moving," stated the first one. "No, it is the flag that is moving," contended the second.

A Zen master, who happened to be walking by, overheard the debate and interrupted them. "Neither the flag nor the wind is moving," he said, "It is MIND that moves."

 
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What about couples who can't conceive?

If they were born that way, does that mean nature did not intend for them to have children? And therefore they should not be able to pursue other avenues (IVF, adoption etc)?

I'm failing to see the logic here.


The simple answer is yes, nature did not intend them to have children. IVF is man's adaptation away from nature and into science.
 
Szepp it interests me that by 'dissproving' genetic reasons for homosexuality you beleive this is evidence for some conciouse selection of ones sexuality. What date did you choose to be arroused when seeing the female form? Somthing can be environmental yet still be hard wired. I would like to point out that I know there is no way i could change my sexuality, it is a subconcious urge that no one has any control over. There is nothing fetish like about it.

It is quite obvious that most most aspects of our body (brain included) are a combination of both genetic and environmental influences. Whether these be having a leg amputated or a hormonal imbalance during pregnancy.

I also find it interesting how by questioning your opinions we are enforcing political correctness onto you. I have an opinion about this issue and feel it my responcibility that other people are told the more logical perspective.
 
For all you un-natural arguers... I hope you get cancer and treat it naturally. The way nature intended it!
 
Szepp it interests me that by 'dissproving' genetic reasons for homosexuality you beleive this is evidence for some conciouse selection of ones sexuality. What date did you choose to be arroused when seeing the female form? Somthing can be environmental yet still be hard wired. I would like to point out that I know there is no way i could change my sexuality, it is a subconcious urge that no one has any control over. There is nothing fetish like about it.

It is quite obvious that most most aspects of our body (brain included) are a combination of both genetic and environmental influences. Whether these be having a leg amputated or a hormonal imbalance during pregnancy.

I also find it interesting how by questioning your opinions we are enforcing political correctness onto you. I have an opinion about this issue and feel it my responcibility that other people are told the more logical perspective.


I know very little about genetics and friends who have a doctorates in genetics and biotechnology always eager to remind me when ever i mention anything out of my league. This is why i appreciate and value the opinion of geneticists who have spend 7 years at university learning their stuff then many years post doc research more than i value the opinion of lay persons and one or two disproven bad scientists.

Like i said most stuff isn't 100% genetic or 100% environmental, but it is all but completely agreed by geneticists that there is zero evidence for the homosexual gene. Maybe you know better than them on the subject? This therefore means that it is environmental, cultural and social so nobody is born homosexual. If you want to argue this point i suggest you do it with a geneticist.
 
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