Sleeping cane toads

[Brodie]

lol CC, just cause the dogs ate them it aint there fault
Keelback and other colubrids such as banded tree snakes also seem to be able to withstand the toxin however only some specimens

 

[Fuscus]

Wattso has brought up both good points and bad points. Freezing is considered the most humane way to kill a cold blooded animal. That may be because it is quiet, we are more likely to do nasty things to animals if they are not able to express there pain (here is a site that agrees with you Wattso on that point (NOTE : Not for the squeamish) http://www.anapsid.org/euth.html and here is one that disagrees with you (Again NFTS) http://www.fdrproject.org/pages/TDdispose.htm). It could also be true that is actually a painless way to kill a reptile, we a mammals body would go into a defensive mode while a reptile may just go into hibernation. More work is needed. Also I have never froze a toad, I hate the cold and would never inflict it on any other creature. It is also illegal to transport a live cane toad and taking one to a freezer could cop you a large fine.

The article also states a sharp blow to the head works. One moment the animal is live and free, next it is dead. Toads that haven?t been molested by people will just sit still, there is no holding the animal or repeated hits, just one swing and that?s it. The disadvantage is that the violence inherent in the system is obvious. I am not ashamed of killing toads that way and will do it again. Sorry Wattso, but as I said in the first post it is quick and it is cheap. And I think it is a better way to treat an animal then the way we treat sheep and cows. I agree with you 100% that we should not mistreat or torture animals (after all, cane toads have been brought to this country, they didn?t come here on their own accord).

Now there are two more ways of killing that are fashionable at the moment, pouring salt on it or spraying dettol on it. I consider both cruel and both should be discouraged.

Wattso has a point with the cute furry bit, culling of wild cats and horses always sets off screams. Personally I think we should actively cull sparrows, what birds would we have in our gardens if we didn?t have sparrows?


A few more links
http://www.nt.gov.au/dbird/dpif/pubcat/newsletters/krr/Krrjul01_files/BugsToads.shtml
http://www.au.gardenweb.com/forums/load/pests/msg0804303116332.html

 

[wattso]

~ And I think it is a better way to treat an animal then the way we treat sheep and cows.~ Fuscus

I couldnt agree with you more on that point mate! same for poultry.
hence my guilt at eating them and contributing to suffering.

I really admire your easy going diplomacy Fuscus, I commend you for it mate. happy xmas

 

[Fuscus]

Thanks mate, I enjoy our conversations.

 

[insectovor]

Hi guys just to get a few things straight here................When I was out that night I had two options 1. Kill all cane toads that I caught, in a matter that would involve squasing, beating, poling, trampling etc. this however would have resulted in many dead bodies laying around on the property. This I couldn't do because this property holds a business and many decomposing cane toads would not been a pleasant site and dead cane toads might attract some of our monitor species or snakes and after consumption they would have died. 2. freeze the buggers.

Don't think I never kill any cane toads by giving them a boot up the bum, but 55 was just a bi too many.

 

[wattso]

Insectovor, could you not have put as much effort into collecting and disposing of toad bodies as you might have while

squasing, beating, poling, trampling etc. [unquote] ? I gather you collected all 55 and made considerable effort to cart them around with you [females were huge] then home to your freezer room? was this any less effort than it would have taken to knock them on the head [more quick and humane] and cart the dead ones home for safe , "tidy" disposal ?????
Your third option mate, was to ignore the toads. You were looking for frogs right?

 

[Fuscus]

You had a choice insectovor, remove to toads or leave then there. I have no objections to your actions .

My father used a novel method of killing the toads when he had his plant nursery. He would just throw them out into the open. He used to have a wild crow that would follow him and the crow would aproach the toad, wack it hard on the head with his beak (the toad was either stunned or killed), pick up the toad by the toads back leg and fly off. 20 minutes later the crow would return and resume following duty. We never saw the crow eat any part of the toad. From what I have heard they gut the toad and eat the intestines and some of the muscular tissue.

 

[insectovor]

To my dear wattso, there was not any carting involved as we collected all 55 in a 25 meter radius and we collected them in a bin and the freezer room is on the property. Ignoring toads would result in no frogs in 5 -10 years that's why I had to undertake this mission. Also if all those females would have spawned the amound of eggs and tadpoles would have been fenominal, seen the fact that eggs and tadpoles are poisonous they could have done a lot of damage to the enviroment. ie native tadpoles feed on cane toad eggs and will not survive, native fish eat toadpoles and get sick or die.
My own opinion of knocking on the head is more difficult then it sounds, they are tough buggers and I've seen plenty getting away with just a knock on the head.

 

[ad]

Why do people post when they dont have a clue what they are talking about? Gregory did have a very valid point. Armchair experts in Whitebread Suburbia??
Insectovor, you did the right thing, you deserve a pat on the back. Field herping and conservation are topics we all want to read and hear about. Keep them coming!
Wattso, try and post on subjects you have first hand experience of, taking an authoritive position on a situation you know squat about does not highlight your obvious intelligence, you end up annoying people and looking like a goose.

 

[wattso]

Gregory is gone because he could not abide others right to their opinion Ad! I was merely expressing my opinion. im well aware of the extent of the problem, however this has no bearing on my opinion of killing things even if you beleive it should. People who consider themselves "experts" often have great difficulty accepting the opinions, and the right to express those opinions, of others. Why rubbish me ad, when such an expert as your good self could so easily educate me instead? If you are annoyed by the opinions and post of others you consider "armchair experts" then perhaps your on the wrong site?merry xmas to you too mate :wink:

 

[ad]

Your welcome to your opinions Wattso, you start a wildlife fund for the cane toad. Set up your ranger patrols and relocate them back to their country of origin. Poor wittle cane toads. It takes a good man to stand up and defend his right to his opinion, it also takes a good man to realize his opinion is wrong and back down. Even after insectovor described the devastation on the frog population you still suggest he leave 55 breeding cane toads in that environment. Freezing them is the best method to kill them. They are strong and can take a few good hits to kill them which is usually messy. You are not listening, just expressing your opinion and defending your right to express your opinion - you havent stopped to think if your opinion is valid.
Am I at the wrong site?, Is it becuase I dont tolerate fools and grandstanders? What is the reason your asking me to leave?

(Edited by Admin)

 

[Nicole]

Ok, enough wattso and ad.
Agree to disagree whilst you are both being civil to one another.
I think you have both expressed yourselves to the extent where everyone understands your viewpoints, and further discussion on that aspect is obsolete.

 

[wattso]

Validity of opinion is purely subjective Ad. no-one is asking you to leave, just to stop ridiculing and rubbishing others who have contrary feelings to your own. All I have said is I disagree with unnessesary cruelty shown by those who take it apon themselves to be Eco-Avengers. Just because eradication of this pest is nessesary does not mean you should abandon all sense of humanity. you disagree, and good for you. lets leave it right there as nicole suggest. merry xmas. :wink:

(Edited by Admin)

 

[Magpie]

Watsso, you ignore several well put, clearly presented posts that show you to be wrong, then claim the moral highground becasue someone becomes exsasperated with you?

(Edited by Admin)

 

[wattso]

Im wrong because I disagree with cruelty! tough! merry xmas to you to Magpie! :wink:

 

[Magpie]

So let me get this straight... It's cruelty to give toads the most humane death possible under the circumstances, but not cruelty to leave them there where they will casue untold numbers of native fauna to die in agony?

 

[Brodie]

Actually I was reading a booklet thing at work on eutanaseia(sp?) of reptiles. and freezing actually isn't considered a humane way of killing ectothermic animals. Will try bring the booklet home and scan some pages in next time I am at work. anyway whats it matter?? its a friggen cane toad who cares if it dies as long as it is dead!

added:

So let me get this straight... It's cruelty to give toads the most humane death possible under the circumastances, but not cruelty to leave them there where they will casue untolf numbers of native fauna to die in agony?

I totally agree Mags!

 

[wattso]

The humanity of freezing a living thing to death is debatable Magpie.
How many cane toads returned from death to tell you it was painless and humane? I didnt say dont kill them, i said I didnt think freezing was a humane method.period.

 

[wattso]

anyway whats it matter?? its a friggen cane toad who cares if it dies as long as it is dead! ~brodie

I dont think you would agree with that if you took your dog to the vet to be put down and he said ill just chuck it in the freezer! anyway whats it matter?? its a friggen dog, who cares if it dies as long as it is dead!

 

[Magpie]

OK, then obviously someone else posted these comments:
-Your third option mate, was to ignore the toads. You were looking for frogs right?
-I imagine they get to plague proportions, but then nature takes over, they will simply run out of food eventually and starve like rabbits surely.