Venomous head hold

[saratoga]

After just reading on another thread ("what snake is this" by carpetsnake) that the photo in question showed an "unsafe" head hold I would like to see some opinions/photos on head holds used by experienced forum members.

Is heading taught by those that run Venomous handling courses or is it just tailing and dropping in a hoop bag.

 

[Jonno from ERD]

G'day saratoga,

I'm a little reluctant to post photo's and descriptions of how we perform and teach head restraints on venomous snakes for obvious reasons. However, we do teach what we deem as the "correct" techniques during our advanced husbandry courses and the course participants are required to apply these techniques in front of us on various species including Eastern Brown Snakes.

There are two very distinct grips - the "two finger" and the "three finger". The two finger grip is used for everything other than assist/force feeding, where you would use a three finger. There are some very important details about where and how to restrain that make our styles of head restraints the safest that we possibly think they can be. Our techniques were derived from what I was taught at Venom Supplies, and I don't think there is any place in Australia that physically restrains snakes as much as they do.

 

[notechistiger]

Jonno, are you able to PM saratoga pictures?

 

[saratoga]

thanks Jonno......I understand your concerns.

Can't say I've had any real problems myself....except that adders worry me as they are so flexible with their jaws.

However would you care to comment on the suitablility or otherwise of the hold in the thread I mentioned.

cheers

Greg

 

[JasonL]

Shane Black has some pics in the Elapid thread

 

[Vincent]

Shane Black has some pics in the Elapid thread

Yeah, but the pic's of me heading the Taipan is not the way i usually hold them. I'm useing my thumb to actually open the snakes mouth for the purpose of the photo. That's not my usual grip.

 

[DonnB]

Death Adders are relatively easy to head restrain as they have a larger head than body. But you need to make sure you support the body properly also.

 

[saratoga]

I learned about restraining the bodies on adders pretty quickly. The ones I have picked up have been wild and immediately on heading them they would spin and twist their bodies to the extent that it seemed they would hurt themselves or break their necks.....fortunately that never happened. Still find them a bit spooky with those flexible jaws and fangs although these days I very rarely head snakes....not even sure why I did it so much in the past!

 

[krusty]

he must have taken the pic of as went looking for it but it is not there.

 

[saratoga]

yep...the pic has been taken down.

 

[Snake Catcher Victoria]

In the gallery i have a few shots of me holding various snakes by the head. Click on 34^^^^

Never thought about how many fingers are used, but ill take notice next time i have to do it.
This week Ive had to relocate a few snakes and "headed" one tiger to remove some huge ticks and check some other stuff, but i hardly ever do it usually.

 

[gelusmuse]

I'm with Jonno from ERD, and, my preference is a 3 finger technique. I have not handled an adder however.

 

[JasonL]

JW at the ARP

 

[moosenoose]

thanks Jonno......I understand your concerns.

Can't say I've had any real problems myself....except that adders worry me as they are so flexible with their jaws.

Greg

Same, I've never had any problems either (touch wood). I've never grabbed an Adder by the head so I do also share a little of your anxiety in doing so.

Snakes have eyes believe it or not :lol:, if they see something coming for their head they're going to react. If they throw a few uncontrolled coils over your hand and force the head out, or loosen your grip you're in real strife.

These days it's common knowledge that some elapids have larger fangs, probably as a direct result of evolutionary means. So keeping fingers advanced under the jaw is a real no-no as far as I'm concerned. Always my advice: if you're unsure: ASK, good advice has the potential to save your life! I won't be touching an Adder until I get some good tips. There is nothing smart about being bitten

 

[Sturdy]

G'day saratoga,

I'm a little reluctant to post photo's and descriptions of how we perform and teach head restraints on venomous snakes for obvious reasons. However, we do teach what we deem as the "correct" techniques during our advanced husbandry courses and the course participants are required to apply these techniques in front of us on various species including Eastern Brown Snakes.

There are two very distinct grips - the "two finger" and the "three finger". The two finger grip is used for everything other than assist/force feeding, where you would use a three finger. There are some very important details about where and how to restrain that make our styles of head restraints the safest that we possibly think they can be. Our techniques were derived from what I was taught at Venom Supplies, and I don't think there is any place in Australia that physically restrains snakes as much as they do.

didnt you get bitten by a death adder demonstrating a head restraint at one of your courses?

 

[herptrader]

Taipans are renowned for piercing their fangs through their lower jaw.

Same, I've never had any problems either (touch wood). I've never grabbed an Adder by the head so I do also share a little of your anxiety in doing so.

Snakes have eyes believe it or not :lol:, if they see something coming for their head they're going to react. If they throw a few uncontrolled coils over your hand and force the head out, or loosen your grip you're in real strife.

These days it's common knowledge that some elapids have larger fangs, probably as a direct result of evolutionary means. So keeping fingers advanced under the jaw is a real no-no as far as I'm concerned. Always my advice: if you're unsure: ASK, good advice has the potential to save your life! I won't be touching an Adder until I get some good tips. There is nothing smart about being bitten

 

[matt86]

didnt you get bitten by a death adder demonstrating a head restraint at one of your courses?

What a constructive comment Sturdy, you should be proud of yourself.
In case you didn't realise that the previous sentence was dripping with sarcasm, it translates to 'grow up.'

If you were querying whether that event occurred, I'm sure you're aware that you could have PM'd Jonno to ask. The fact that you asked it in a thread shows that you're just trying to cause a stir.

Without speaking on Jonno's behalf, I'm pretty sure he'd tell you that bites do occur, no matter how careful you are, and the more contact you have, the greater the risk. Learning a technique does not make you invincible, it just lowers your risks.

 

[Snake Catcher Victoria]

Taipans are renowned for piercing their fangs through their lower jaw.

I have seen tigers in private collections that have teeth coming through the bottom jaw and got the impression, after seeing the way they were treated, that this could be caused by the pinner.
To much preassure on the top of the head drives the fangs through.
Is it a natural occurence or caused by the pinning procedure.?
p.s I have never seen it on a wild tiger.

 

[Sturdy]

I have seen tigers in private collections that have teeth coming through the bottom jaw and got the impression, after seeing the way they were treated, that this could be caused by the pinner.
To much preassure on the top of the head drives the fangs through.
Is it a natural occurence or caused by the pinning procedure.?

ive also seen this on tigers and coastal tai's

and matt86, PM'd

 

[redbellybite]

I was taught the three finger hold ,the top finger is only meant to sit lightly and apply a bit of pressure if needed ..
LOL...Matt ,I think sturdy was only giving Jonno a bit of curry nothing serious ,he is an avid keeper of vens I am sure sturdy is aware of how quickly things can go wrong ...
I see so many pics on here of people holding vens in different ways ..some make me go OMG
others well if it works for you ,and your comfortable with that hold then do it ...