toxinologist said:Hi all (one last time on this thread...)
Bottom line:
1. By all means send out volunteers to rescue/rehabilitate venomous snakes but if you are an officer of an organisation under whose umbrella that volunteer works - you have a legal responsibility to minimise the risks to that volunteer.
That is why we have a course albeit inadequate.
2. Current 1-2 day handling courses do not in my opinion meet this legal obligation because they do not provide adequate, sufficient appropriate training and experience to these volunteers.
Unfortunately on this your opinion is moot as it does meet the legal obligation.
3. Development of a more comprehensive course by the organisations currently running short courses would substantially remedy this problem and greatly reduce the ongoing risk to participants once they go out to actually perform rescues/captures.
I spent a day at a gab fest with NPWS NSW and a panel of your experts. Nothing changed. In fact are biologists the best peple to tell us how to deal with extremely dangerous animals. A lot of their animals are caught using volunteers.
Instead of shooting the messenger I would urge people in these organisations, or those involved in the currently available courses to think about the issue and perhaps take appropriate steps to improve their services.
Do you think we havent discussed the issues long and hard. The course in the organisation has 24 places a year in the training course and this also accommodates refreshers. We arent churning out fodder. You show a lack of knpowledeg as to what happens in the setting up of some of these courses. I cannot speak for other organisations of course.
Did I also mention that particularly for charity/non-funded groups - running a longer course through a TAFE would bring in (1) wages for the trainers, and (2) course fees to fund your activities...
I agree and such a course could be cobbled together and submitted with the trainers sent to an adult education course to be accredted but.........
I thought long and hard before I ran this last course and about most of the issues you have raised and I will be holding anotherone as unfortunately it is necessary.
WIRES reptile handling course
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Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
I would suggest that David has made a very valid point which has been taken as an attack on the WIRES course. I don't think that was his true intention but he was making quite a valid point as several people will take on very dangerous snakes thinking that they will be ok even if they get bitten.
From my experience in ICU in an Australian teaching hospital I think that if you got bitten significantly and came to my Sydney teaching hospital by a eastern brown or taipan you would be in a lot of trouble and would possibly die. Its that simple.
There is an issue regarding how people would be trained for relocation via the WIRES network and the people who do the training are well intentioned but as David said when push comes to shove in court experts like David (trust me he is a world qualified expert on Taipans) and others like Brian Fry are going to say that 1-2 days is not enough training for taking on venemous snakes.
The other issue is that David has brought up a good point in that maybe a TAFE course is a goer (I am sure you would get a lot of people who are interested in Herps doing it) and maybe with your background adullthud you could set it up or teach it?
Cheers Hawkeye
From my experience in ICU in an Australian teaching hospital I think that if you got bitten significantly and came to my Sydney teaching hospital by a eastern brown or taipan you would be in a lot of trouble and would possibly die. Its that simple.
There is an issue regarding how people would be trained for relocation via the WIRES network and the people who do the training are well intentioned but as David said when push comes to shove in court experts like David (trust me he is a world qualified expert on Taipans) and others like Brian Fry are going to say that 1-2 days is not enough training for taking on venemous snakes.
The other issue is that David has brought up a good point in that maybe a TAFE course is a goer (I am sure you would get a lot of people who are interested in Herps doing it) and maybe with your background adullthud you could set it up or teach it?
Cheers Hawkeye
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Slateman
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Yes Adulthud. That is not bad idea. I am sure that you will easy put together 20 people who are willing to pay fee for course like that. You can ask in forum how many people from APS would be interested to pay about $ 300 for 2 weeks course. 20 people would pay the expense by my opinion.
grahamh
Well-Known Member
I reckon there's as much venom in some of our members as in the average Eastern Brown. I've just read through these posts and there are lots of valid points along with a lot of passion and emotion. I did my course as stated earlier. I dressed appropriately to minimise the risk of being bitten. I had RBBS's and EB's go over my boots and between my legs.
I went in to the course with my eyes open and got some very valuable instruction from some well know and experienced instructors (2 per group of 7 students). We bagged RBBS's & EB's on open grass, from inside simulated sheds (Cupboards and chest of drawers) and from large piles of rubbish. We worked individually and in pairs. We had practical demonstrations of appropriate behaviour and I left that course confident that I could go on to perform rescues in a safe manner. I will need experience to turn that small amount of training into confident practice. I will remenber the advice received and know that if I find myself in a situation where I am not confident that I do not have to put myself in danger. I have an experienced mentor that I can call on if the need arises. The whole thing is a voluntary service to the community and I look forward to performing a role that will help others, save a few snakes from the garden spade or hosepipe and in the process gain some interesting experience. If I get bitten I am prepared to accept the consequences and I have a prety good idea of how bad that can be. I don't recommend the course for everyone, it's not for people that want to learn to handle snakes or get rid of a 'snake fear. It is not a big ego trip, it is a fascinating aspect of a fascinating subject. As Laura said I will also go again and again to the course whenever it is available.
I will never miss the chance to handle a snake so long as it is in the interest of the snake and my education.
G 8)
I went in to the course with my eyes open and got some very valuable instruction from some well know and experienced instructors (2 per group of 7 students). We bagged RBBS's & EB's on open grass, from inside simulated sheds (Cupboards and chest of drawers) and from large piles of rubbish. We worked individually and in pairs. We had practical demonstrations of appropriate behaviour and I left that course confident that I could go on to perform rescues in a safe manner. I will need experience to turn that small amount of training into confident practice. I will remenber the advice received and know that if I find myself in a situation where I am not confident that I do not have to put myself in danger. I have an experienced mentor that I can call on if the need arises. The whole thing is a voluntary service to the community and I look forward to performing a role that will help others, save a few snakes from the garden spade or hosepipe and in the process gain some interesting experience. If I get bitten I am prepared to accept the consequences and I have a prety good idea of how bad that can be. I don't recommend the course for everyone, it's not for people that want to learn to handle snakes or get rid of a 'snake fear. It is not a big ego trip, it is a fascinating aspect of a fascinating subject. As Laura said I will also go again and again to the course whenever it is available.
I will never miss the chance to handle a snake so long as it is in the interest of the snake and my education.
G 8)
Robert
Well-Known Member
My question is do you need a Specialists Licence(What we call it in QLD)or class2 Licence if that is what is called down south, to do the WIRES course???
grahamh
Well-Known Member
Answer
not for the NATF course and I believe the WIRES one is the same (Craig or Laura can answer that).
not for the NATF course and I believe the WIRES one is the same (Craig or Laura can answer that).
grahamh
Well-Known Member
NATF doesn't use answering machines we have a dedicated bunch of people that take it in turn to answer calls and then find the appropriate available person to handle the rescue.
It's great that we have so many willing wildlife resuers in so many great organisations.
Native Animal Trust Fund call centre - 0500 502 294 (Hunter Valley area)
It's great that we have so many willing wildlife resuers in so many great organisations.
Native Animal Trust Fund call centre - 0500 502 294 (Hunter Valley area)
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Slateman
Guest
Grahamh I do not think that people who express their opinion differently mean to upset you and they did it quite nicely and in good manner. I am absolute bystander and I am looking at this argument from Bought sides. Wires please keep doing good work and If possible, we should look at chance to get better preparation then 2 days course only.
No point to get upset about this on APS
Watso think that I took your post out of concept. With my language skill that is possible. If that is the case I am sorry mate. I just thought that you are little upset about all this.
No point to get upset about this on APS
Watso think that I took your post out of concept. With my language skill that is possible. If that is the case I am sorry mate. I just thought that you are little upset about all this.
You only need to be a current member of WIRES, which involves doing a 2 day training course on basic rescue and care of wildlife. Then the specialist courses like reptile, raptor etc can be completed as they become available.
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Slateman
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Must say that Wires course do not claim that people who attending it will be experts to handle all toxic snakes. This course should give people just as much knowledge, as possible in 2 days.
After this many people are looking for more experiance elswere if they thing that this is what they want to do. That is my impression after all posts here in this topic. You see, I learned something here. :wink: If I will have choice in the future to get in to thyis course, I will do this. But I don't think that this course make me expert instantly.
I remember when Pinkie finished her first one, she said that she is feeling more confident after the course, but I am sure that she did not went to catch brown snakes on her own.
After this many people are looking for more experiance elswere if they thing that this is what they want to do. That is my impression after all posts here in this topic. You see, I learned something here. :wink: If I will have choice in the future to get in to thyis course, I will do this. But I don't think that this course make me expert instantly.
I remember when Pinkie finished her first one, she said that she is feeling more confident after the course, but I am sure that she did not went to catch brown snakes on her own.
grahamh
Well-Known Member
Hi Jan
I didn't feel upset by the comments - I just wanted to make the point that for at least the course I attended I was well looked after and the education I received was adequate for me to start rescuing snakes. To become an expert requires practice and education and then practice and education. You have to start somewhere and education is a good place to start.
G
I didn't feel upset by the comments - I just wanted to make the point that for at least the course I attended I was well looked after and the education I received was adequate for me to start rescuing snakes. To become an expert requires practice and education and then practice and education. You have to start somewhere and education is a good place to start.
G
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Slateman
Guest
That is good grahamh. I think that people who posted to this topic ment well and tried to put their wiew nicely. This 2 days course from Wires is really popular with herp public. Did you get any chance to do some rescuing after course
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