Hero dog takes down snake

[redbellybite]

So Jason is it the fact she could tell it was a ven or just a snake in general ...dogs that attack wild snakes would attack any type,I would think ..how can they tell the difference between an eb and a gts?half the time humans cant tell the difference ....

 

[JasonL]

So Jason is it the fact she could tell it was a ven or just a snake in general ...dogs that attack wild snakes would attack any type,I would think ..how can they tell the difference between an eb and a gts?half the time humans cant tell the difference ....

Well, I generally don't think they can without experience, that was the thing, she picked up the scent and without doubt she knew it was dangerous, and I suspect she had run into one before as when she was about 12-18 months old I found her unable to walk and was in alot of pain she slept in the kitchen and took a couple of days to shake it off... it got me thinking?
It is quite easy to train dogs to avoid snakes though, all you need is a citronella remote control collar, a harmless snake and a cage of some type.

 

[Serpentes]

My boy points 'em all out. Have a python in a bag in the bedroom at themoment and he keeps running in, growling, then running out to let me know "Dad! There's a snake in the bedroom!".

My girl dog got bitten by a big diamond python when she was a pup (quick way to learn that snakes aren't ropes!). She's since been wary about big pythons but not too worried about little quick elapids and tree snakes. So I guess JasonL your dog might have become a blacksnake searching machine Take her out into P.butleri habitat and she'd be invaluable if you got on a scent!.

 

[Moreliaman]

I know dogs quite often save or at least try to save their owners, but I don't really believe that dogs know this funny looking long thin thing has venom that would harm us (not domesticated dogs any way, unsure about dingos etc). It moves so it wants to kill it. Yet I maybe wrong, not saying its a fact, just what I think.

Not true with my dog......he'd want to play with it !! but if i tell him to leave then he does & just sits there & watches !
I dont believe domestic dogs have killer instinct's,... I know someone with a staffie that wants to kill every cat it see's....then someone else i know has a staffie that plays with cats ! Im thinking its the way they are raised from puppy by the owner that influences their behaviour/attitude in older life......(if the storys true...although a little twisted by the press) im sure this dog protected its owner & i'd be happy for my dog to kill a venomous snake that i hadnt seen, if that snake was a threat to me or anyone else..........And yes id be more worried about my dog being hurt than the snake..........we are part of this life on earth....we've all evolved from the same bacteria...whats the difference in a domestic dog killing a snake to protect its owner whom it see's as the leader of its pack...to another wild animal killing a snake to protect its young !

 

[JasonL]

Some Dogs certainly have both "killer" and "pack" instincts... but you certainly can't just say "dogs" or "domestic dogs" to blanket all types of dogs, Cattle Dogs for example have only been around for under 200 years, with 1/4 dingo they can't be compaired to a dog that has been bred for 1000 years as a lap dog. Every type of dog originated (was bred) to serve a specific purpose, some of these purposes was to hunt and kill, some to kill large animals, some for small.. Many Terriers were bred to kill rats and mice ect... and it's not that they were designed to kill specifically rats, it was they were good at killing small fast animals..
Now the pack instinct... Dogs are pack animals, and the family they belong to is their pack, a good percentage of dog owners know little about the behaviour of dogs and the dog ends up being the leader of it's "pack".. any dog leading, or striving to become the leader will often try to defend the pack if it see's a member in danger, and if it is a type with an instinct to kill, it will usually be happy to bite or bite to kill.. This is often why dogs that form groups and / or are kept in large groups can turn dangerous.

 

[Moreliaman]

any dog leading, or striving to become the leader will often try to defend the pack if it see's a member in danger, and if it is a type with an instinct to kill, it will usually be happy to bite or bite to kill.. This is often why dogs that form groups and / or are kept in large groups can turn dangerous.

I'll have to agree to disagree with you on that mate.....a dog will defend the pack regardless of its intentions to be pack leader........its hardwired in from birth.....(survival).......domestic and wild.....And from the info ive read over the years ....influence from the owner can determine the attitude of the adult dog later in life.

 

[JasonL]

I'll have to agree to disagree with you on that mate.....a dog will defend the pack regardless of its intentions to be pack leader........its hardwired in from birth.....(survival).......domestic and wild.....And from the info ive read over the years ....influence from the owner can determine the attitude of the adult dog later in life.

Are you saying EVERY domestic dog will defends it's pack?

 

[JasonL]

And from the info ive read over the years ....influence from the owner can determine the attitude of the adult dog later in life.

Of course attitudes from the other pack members has an influence on the dog itself.

 

[Moreliaman]

Are you saying EVERY domestic dog will defends it's pack?

That would depend on the type of influence its had from its owner !

 

[Midol]

Very few dogs will defend its pack.

Dogs who attack Snakes are doing so from their prey insticts, prey drive. That's the desire to chase moving objects.

Ray Coppinger has done some interesting research into this. There are basically 7 phases of a hunt:
1. Orient
2. Eye
3. Stalk
4. Chase
5. Grab
6. Bite-Kill
7. Bite-Dissect

Certain breeds of dogs will exhibit different parts of that sequence. As far as I know there is not a single breed in existance that reliably conducts all 7 of those. My first Husky, imo, did. However my current one does not. My GSD will "Eye", "Chase" and "Grab". I've never seen him "Bite-Kill"

I remember seeing a good flow chart on some common breeds and which sections Ray saw them exhibiting. Someone who actually understands canine behaviour will be able to identify which parts their dogs exhibit. Others will think they know, but will be wrong.

I highly suggest that if anyone is interested in this they research Rays work. Or you can remain misinformed.

This might be a good start:
http://www.canis.cl/general/archivos/media/files/Canine Ergonomics - The Science of Working Dogs.pdf

But it's downloading at 500 bytes per second so I can't read it first

This has an alright explanation under "Dog Breeds":
Howstuffworks "How Dogs Work"

Jason, some dogs which have been bred for a bloody long time, like my breed, the Siberian Husky are very, very closely related to wolves... But that doesn't mean they have "wolfish" behaviour or are untrustworthy. A cattle dog is a cattle dog is a dog. If you treat it like a dog and train it appropriately then it is no different to any other high drive dog. Ohh, wait, I think we are agreeing It all depends on the dog and what it was bred for.

 

[JasonL]

Jason, some dogs which have been bred for a bloody long time, like my breed, the Siberian Husky are very, very closely related to wolves... But that doesn't mean they have "wolfish" behaviour or are untrustworthy. A cattle dog is a cattle dog is a dog. If you treat it like a dog and train it appropriately then it is no different to any other high drive dog. Ohh, wait, I think we are agreeing It all depends on the dog and what it was bred for.[/QUOTE]

My example was that cattle dogs were bred to bite (the hocks of cattle), they are far more inclined to bite things than SOME other breeds of dogs... not all dogs are the same, but they all follow basically the same basic principals of behaviour.

 

[JasonL]

That would depend on the type of influence its had from its owner !

You could not train every dog to be aggressive, some individuals just don't have it in them, others are easily trained to be aggressive, thats my point in short.

 

[Moreliaman]

Very few dogs will defend its pack.

Dogs who attack Snakes are doing so from their prey insticts, prey drive. That's the desire to chase moving objects.

Ray Coppinger has done some interesting research into this. There are basically 7 phases of a hunt:
1. Orient
2. Eye
3. Stalk
4. Chase
5. Grab
6. Bite-Kill
7. Bite-Dissect

Certain breeds of dogs will exhibit different parts of that sequence. As far as I know there is not a single breed in existance that reliably conducts all 7 of those. My first Husky, imo, did. However my current one does not. My GSD will "Eye", "Chase" and "Grab". I've never seen him "Bite-Kill"

I remember seeing a good flow chart on some common breeds and which sections Ray saw them exhibiting. Someone who actually understands canine behaviour will be able to identify which parts their dogs exhibit. Others will think they know, but will be wrong.

I highly suggest that if anyone is interested in this they research Rays work. Or you can remain misinformed.

This might be a good start:
http://www.canis.cl/general/archivos/media/files/Canine Ergonomics - The Science of Working Dogs.pdf

But it's downloading at 500 bytes per second so I can't read it first

This has an alright explanation under "Dog Breeds":
Howstuffworks "How Dogs Work"

Sorry but ray (whoever he is) isnt the "all being" of dog behaviour !! there are alot of dog behaviour specialists all over the world...just because you personally believe rays work is gospel doest mean its right m8 !!......Ive read info from many different specialists (not just 1) & i dont consider any of them to be a bible on dog behaviour....& yes....I also believe im quite good at working out how my dog's mind works (sometimes !! lol)


jason.....how do you define pack protection ??....i think youd be hard pressed to find a dog that doesnt either bark, growl or exhibit some other form of aggression when a stranger comes into your house.....wouldnt that be concieved as a form of protection ?

 

[Moreliaman]

You could not train every dog to be aggressive, some individuals just don't have it in them, others are easily trained to be aggressive, thats my point in short.

Again....agree to disagree m8..:lol:.....im sure with the right surroundings & knowledge you could train any dog to be agressive....even the rats on sticks !! (toy dogs)

 

[JasonL]

jason.....how do you define pack protection ??....i think youd be hard pressed to find a dog that doesnt either bark, growl or exhibit some other form of aggression when a stranger comes into your house.....wouldnt that be concieved as a form of protection ?[/QUOTE]

My current dog, who funnly enough is very dominant and barks when being roughed up and loves rough play will let anyone in the yard. A courier last week came into the yard and verbally assualted my wife and my dog just sat in the sun watching whilst they had a screaming match that lasted about 5 minutes.. I understand what you are saying and think you are generally correct, but there are some dogs, that are just plain lazy and generally scared of harsh conflict, usually this can be from how they have been raised or what has happened to them during their upbringing especially those dogs that are scared of conflict, but not always.

 

[JasonL]

Again....agree to disagree m8..:lol:.....im sure with the right surroundings & knowledge you could train any dog to be agressive....even the rats on sticks !! (toy dogs)

Toy dogs are often the most aggressive, usually fear aggression (the worst kind)

 

[Moreliaman]

Toy dogs are often the most aggressive, usually fear aggression (the worst kind)

lol.......well yeah...when your that small theres a reason to be scared eh !!..lol....i hate the lil ankle bitin buggers......get a proper dog !!! :lol:

 

[Moreliaman]

My current dog, who funnly enough is very dominant and barks when being roughed up and loves rough play will let anyone in the yard. A courier last week came into the yard and verbally assualted my wife and my dog just sat in the sun watching whilst they had a screaming match that lasted about 5 minutes.. I understand what you are saying and think you are generally correct, but there are some dogs, that are just plain lazy and generally scared of harsh conflict, usually this can be from how they have been raised or what has happened to them during their upbringing especially those dogs that are scared of conflict, but not always.

LOL....you need to have words with that dog mate !! (what breed just out of interest) If my missus takes the dog out (boxer) and someone starts shouting at her the dog will growl !! if i have an argument with the other half the dog buggers off.....but anyone else & the dog is there at her side.

 

[JasonL]

PM sent, getting off subject

 

[Moreliaman]

Youre right....sorry for going off topic people !! (interesting stuff tho eh!)