Crossing Doulble White Lines

[kawasakirider]

If you had a camera you could of taken a pic and not got the fine.
Why you ask is because you could of taken your case to court and won! The police cannot give a fine and break the law too! You would of had hard evidence, oh well you know for next time,if there ever is a next time.

No.

Just because a cop breaks the law and you documented it doesn't mean you'd get off at all.


Cops have left a bad taste in my mouth recently (granted they aren't all bad, I've had some good ones). I was in a convoy of cars going down a hill and I was the last car. I was pulled over for speeding and the female cop said that I was speeding. I asked to see the reading and she said her partner radarred me at 71 and she got me at 74, this was in a 60 zone by the way.

I KNOW I was not speeding and I believe I was pulled over because I was the last in line and easiest to get. I explained to her that I'd had my licence for almost 3 years without a single issue and that it was imperative to me that I didn't lose it, as I have no one down here to help me with anything. She didn't want to hear a bar of it and went back to her car. I asked what I'd be fined for, and she said 74 in a 60, I asked her what about her partners reading and she said that as it was her giving out the fine, she could use her discretion to pick which one to fine me with (keeping in mind there is a substantial demerit point and fine difference between 11 over and 14 over).

When she went back, I decided to record her because I knew she'd booked me illegally. She came back and I asked her where she radarred me, she said "coming down that hill" which was about 400m away and I got her to confirm that. She also confirmed that it was against protocol to radar vehicles coming down a hill (including the one she pinged me on) unless the area had specific complaints, she also admitted on tape that no complaints had been made about the area.

To top it all off, she gave me the reading that she reckoned she had, rather than her partners reading. The difference of a couple of clicks was enough to cost me 3 points and a substantially larger fine. I KNOW I was not speeding, as the convoy of cars kept on accelerating down the hill but I stuck to the limit, as if that wasn't bad enough she almost cost me my whole 4 points!

I spoke to people about it and it turns out that because she wasn't informed of the recording, it was inadmissible as I didn't have a warrant. So because of a cop trying to wrongly assert her authority on an extremely polite and compliant person with a clean record, I almost lost my ticket.

They are revenue raising idiots, the only cops I have respect for are the ones who solve proper investigations. Highway patrol is an absolute joke.

Don't get me wrong, I like cars and what not, but I always obey the road rules because my licence is too important to me to risk. Before anyone points out my DP, it was on private property

 

[waruikazi]

Some times i love you man! Some cops are on a stupid power trip. Did you take it to court?

No.

Just because a cop breaks the law and you documented it doesn't mean you'd get off at all.


Cops have left a bad taste in my mouth recently (granted they aren't all bad, I've had some good ones). I was in a convoy of cars going down a hill and I was the last car. I was pulled over for speeding and the female cop said that I was speeding. I asked to see the reading and she said her partner radarred me at 71 and she got me at 74, this was in a 60 zone by the way.

I KNOW I was not speeding and I believe I was pulled over because I was the last in line and easiest to get. I explained to her that I'd had my licence for almost 3 years without a single issue and that it was imperative to me that I didn't lose it, as I have no one down here to help me with anything. She didn't want to hear a bar of it and went back to her car. I asked what I'd be fined for, and she said 74 in a 60, I asked her what about her partners reading and she said that as it was her giving out the fine, she could use her discretion to pick which one to fine me with (keeping in mind there is a substantial demerit point and fine difference between 11 over and 14 over).

When she went back, I decided to record her because I knew she'd booked me illegally. She came back and I asked her where she radarred me, she said "coming down that hill" which was about 400m away and I got her to confirm that. She also confirmed that it was against protocol to radar vehicles coming down a hill (including the one she pinged me on) unless the area had specific complaints, she also admitted on tape that no complaints had been made about the area.

To top it all off, she gave me the reading that she reckoned she had, rather than her partners reading. The difference of a couple of clicks was enough to cost me 3 points and a substantially larger fine. I KNOW I was not speeding, as the convoy of cars kept on accelerating down the hill but I stuck to the limit, as if that wasn't bad enough she almost cost me my whole 4 points!

I spoke to people about it and it turns out that because she wasn't informed of the recording, it was inadmissible as I didn't have a warrant. So because of a cop trying to wrongly assert her authority on an extremely polite and compliant person with a clean record, I almost lost my ticket.

They are revenue raising idiots, the only cops I have respect for are the ones who solve proper investigations. Highway patrol is an absolute joke.

Don't get me wrong, I like cars and what not, but I always obey the road rules because my licence is too important to me to risk. Before anyone points out my DP, it was on private property

 

[kawasakirider]

Some times i love you man! Some cops are on a stupid power trip. Did you take it to court?

Not sure if serious lol? If you are... Why? hahaha

I couldn't take it to court because I taped her illegally It doesn't matter though, I get my opens in Feb, pretty stoked that I haven't lost it, a few of my mates have lost it for horrid reasons.

Yeah cops are on power trips a fair bit, although I've met some really great ones. One let me go for a stupid thing (I was breatho'd down the road from my house ((when I lived in the bush)) and had left my licence at home :O stupid, anyway the guy let me drive home and get it!!). My old man is an ex det. sgt, worked kings cross in the 80's, but he hates the uniform police, lol...

EDIT

My original post says "I was pulled over for speeding and the female cop told me I was speeding".... I have had a few beers, lol. I wasn't speeding though!

 

[waruikazi]

I've had a few beers too, we're all human!

 

[Wally]

No driving for you two then.

 

[kawasakirider]

Might be the smart option!

There was a bloke in QLD that spent 60K hiring surveyors and a bunch of other stuff to fight this speeding ticket that he was given when riding one day last year. Eventually he won and the cop was in a bit of hot water, I'll have a dig around for the link and post it.

 

[waruikazi]

No driving for you two then.

But there's no law against dancing!

 

[kawasakirider]

But there's no law against dancing!

There probably should be. I'd rather be put in overnight and spared the embarrassment of the stuff I pull in the clubs when I've had too many, I must look like the most uncoordinated imbecile, haha.

 

[Banjo]

I would have agree about some Hwy patrol being power happy, the one that pulled me over carried on about how dangerous my actions were (no ticket for dangerous riding though) called all motorbike riders idiots and that they all use the Gold Coast Hinterland as a race track.

 

[Wrightpython]

when i got pulled over a few years back i had a work cover officer with me going on a shooting trip. when the officer got out off his patrol car he wasnt wearing his flouro safety vest so ounce he finished fining me my mate fined him. Three seperate fines totalling $650.00 and after i managed to get off in court. best thing is we told the officer have a nice day not the other way round. For record i was caught doing 64kmh in 60 zone but i had to drive out to forbes to face court

 

[dansfish4tea]

Would cheaper than traffic infringements.

no not at all

 

[DarwinBrianT]

no not at all

It is if you count not being able to get to work from loss of licence.

 

[ChargerWA]

I couldn't take it to court because I taped her illegally

As long as you were party to the conversation you are legally allowed to record it.

 

[DarwinBrianT]

As long as you were party to the conversation you are legally allowed to record it.

I would think that was true, they don't have to tell you and can still use it.

 

[slim6y]

I don't see why it would be imissible in court - for one, it's the police that have a code to abide by, they're not meant to record people without justification + notification.

Therefore, as long as the time frame is relevant, you can make a small claim against the police force to have any money fined returned. As far as I am aware, this doesn't cost you anything and you can represent yourself with evidence.

Even if you took the photo of the cop, or video, then by the same rule, that would also be immisible. The good news is - the location on the ticket should show the hill.

What I don't get is why people have such a beef about cops... Yes, they do show their power hungry motives from time to time. But look at Australia's road toll!!! It's HUGE!!

For a country full of long, straight, wide roads - the road toll is disgusting!

Maybe cops don't do a good enough job at all. Maybe a zero tollerance attitude should be taken into account.

I hate getting tickets - as much as the next guy. In fact, the two I have had in 20 years of driving just continued to make me see how wrong I was to be speeding.

Once, I was 100m from a 100km/h zone and speeding up - I reached 81... I was still in a 70 zone... I got done... 100m from the sign...

But (I was in my early 20s) - fair is fair. I was not in a 100km/h zone, I was in a 70. I argued it and argued it. But the reality was, young and stupid. Learnt my lesson.

The other time was also silly, speeding up to get up a hill. 61 in a 50 zone. I deserved that one fully!

The fact is... Maybe you will get a beef about a cop.... Maybe the cop will do the wrong thing too... Maybe you should just take it like a man, admit you're wrong from time to tine and suffer the consequences.

Personally, I think speeding and drinking and driving should have much harsher consequences.

And there should be less "but the cops did this... But the cops did that...."

Most people affected in their lives by the police are from traffic infringements. I don't care who hates them - I personally think the world is generally a better place with them there and there obviously isn't enough of them or at least 1200 people last year would still be alive and a further 10,000 wouldn't have suffered such horrific injuries.

Next time you get a ticket... Take it... Thank the officer for saving someone's life - for asking you to SLOW DOWN and do the RIGHT THING!

Maybe one day when you have kids, you'll slow down, do the right thing, and understand what pain people suffer from the roads.

 

[Banjo]

I pretty sure they do tell you, as it written on the bottom of my fine in the notes "re audio". But they certainly don't say anything at the start though.

Slim6y re your comments about the road toll, I personally think it not to do with speeding so much but more to do with education. It is a fact that in Australia we teach people to get a license not how to drive. But i do believe in obeying the law though.

 

[slim6y]

Banjo - you're right - but the speeding is a consequence that raises the road toll... More driver related fatalities are due to speeding - education suggests SLOW DOWN!!!

So - education... Yes... We all need it... Some will listen, some won't.

I've taught for a number of years, and instinct tells me if I told the students what was in their exams tomorrow, they'd go home and study for it.

So I tried it. I actually gave kids the questions in the exams and told them this was what was in it - the same ones who would have passed, passed, the same ones that failed every test, failed... There was NO change.

I even asked one of the students who failed, but I told you what the questions were... He just looked at me and said "I know..."

Education is a part of it - enforcement is another. Unfortunately, the two need to go hand in hand to make it work.

So consider your ticket an education

 

[Banjo]

I did Slim6y, just read the earlier post about my impatience.
Speed doesn't kill, speed in the wrong places kills as does lack of education with driving. Why does Europe have a lower road toll and they have higher speed limits, it is because they teach people how to drive before getting a license.

 

[kawasakirider]

As long as you were party to the conversation you are legally allowed to record it.

I did record it legally, it doesn't mean it holds any weight in court. I could present it and it may embarrass the cops and they may have withdrawn the case, but it is heresy.

 

[slim6y]

Damn, I had a HUGE post all set out for you and my internet died on me.

So, you'll have to live with the abridged version.

Start with Europe - in Germany 3657 people lost their lives on the road - education (damn, I am missing the huge point of my last post - but I can't write it all again).

I'm sorry, but statistics show that Germany and UK, France, Belgium and many other european countries have similar or high road tolls than Australia.

I don't buy the education thing here.

I wished my last post hadn't disolved into cyber emptiness - you'd have liked the arguments...

So for the mean time, dwell on the fact that Europe doesn't share a lower road toll through education... They share it through conjested, wide, well maintained vehicles and roads. Driver education is only a part of it.

Educate Australians, leave roads in poor conditions, leave cars poorly maintained and keep the same road toll - simple...

Speed will always be the number 1 killer on our roads - not lack of education.

Fatalities Per 100,000 People:

Australia = 7.7
New Zealand = 8.6
United Kingdom = 3.59
Germany = 4.5
France = 6.9
Belgium = 10.1

Now look at it per 100,000 vehicles
Australia = 8
New Zealand = 11
United Kingdom = 7
Germany = 7.2
France = 12
Belgium = 17

When you look at fatalities per 100,000 vehicles - we're not so different at all - that suggests a number of things - education isn't working.

Incidentally the worst place to drive is in India - with over 1100 fatalities per 100,000 vehicles....