Lighting and Heating

[Tijah]

Been reading up on this all day now...

OK, so we're making a list of what to get and hoping to get a bit of input as we get everything for our new enclosure. Still deciding between bearded dragon and monitor. We know we need both a basking lamp and UV fluorescent.

We do have a few questions in regards to lighting:

1. Does colour matter with basking lamps?
2. What is the purpose of an infrared heat bulb vs. those just sold as basking lamps?
3. For desert species, what % UVB should we using Repti Glo 10.0? Exo-Terra's site recommends using 10.0 combined with 2.0.
4. What about the depth of the tank? Our tank is 800mm high, but Repti Glo tubes have a rated effectiveness to 500mm. The basking area is 300mm from the top (obviously adjustable).
5. We're also not sure whether to get UV tubes or bulbs -- as the tank is a converted aquarium, there are two glass dividers in the top, meaning the UV tubes will be filtered.
6. Nocturnal bulbs are also on the list of not sure. Opinions?

We also need to decide whether we need an additional source of heat, in addition to the basking lamp (we live in a moderately desert-like area of Queensland -- hot summer days, which cool off considerably at night, and winters are cool -- cold to us ). I think we need to get the basking lamp and see what sort of temperature the tank gets to.

I think this covers just about everything one could possibly ask in regards to lighting.

Thanks in advance, people.

- Tija

 

[disintegratus]

I'm no expert, and I don't have any personal experience, but I've heard good things about mercury vapour bulbs, as both a heat and uv source.
If it does cool off considerably at night, perhaps a heat cord under a part of the tank to provide night time heat?
I'm sure someone more experienced than I will give you some more definite advice, but it's a start

 

[Tijah]

Thanks, disintegratus -- all input is welcome and helpful, expert or not

The only thing about the mercury vapour bulbs is that I have read that they're not entirely healthy -- here's something I read at Lighting and heating for reptiles: They are not the same thing :

Problems with Mercury Vapor Heat/Light/UV Products

There are mercury vapor and metal halide lights which produce both heat and UVB. Unfortunately, they may be dangerous to your reptile. They put out very high levels of ultraviolet wavelengths requiring them to be turned off when you are near them and/or needing to limit their time in use with the reptile. (For my take on products such as the ActiveUV and PowerSUN, please see my article Mercury Vapor Lamps: Are they suitable or safe for typical home use?) It is safer, though more cumbersome, to use a heat source and a separate UV fluorescent tube if you cannot assure your UVB-dependent reptile access to sufficient sunlight on a regular basis.​

​

 

[thomasbecker]

My answers are:


Does colour matter with basking lamps? yes it does. If it is red, purple, black or blue, then it can be used all the time whereas a normal white light can only be used during the day.
What is the purpose of an infrared heat bulb vs. those just sold as basking lamps? infrared heat bulb can be used for heat during the day and night as the reptiles can't see the lights colour whereas the 'basking lamps' are only to be used during the day.
For desert species, what % UVB should we using Repti Glo 10.0? Exo-Terra's site recommends using 10.0 combined with 2.0. 5.0 or 10.0 is fine
What about the depth of the tank? Our tank is 800mm high, but Repti Glo tubes have a rated effectiveness to 500mm. The basking area is 300mm from the top (obviously adjustable). Would be fine, I have my UV light approx 30cm away from the basking spot
We're also not sure whether to get UV tubes or bulbs -- as the tank is a converted aquarium, there are two glass dividers in the top, meaning the UV tubes will be filtered. I think you will need to have it in the tank as it can't pass through the glass. The tubes take up more room but offer a wider range of area of UV rays whereas the bulbs are more space saver.
Nocturnal bulbs are also on the list of not sure. Opinions. If you mean dark purple/black, then yes they are good. If you have it in your bedroom or somewhere where red light isn't wanted, then a nocturnal bulb is better as it produces dark light.

 

[bigjoediver]

Dragons seem to thrive better under bright basking lamps. You could probably get away with a cheap R50/60 spotlight globe from your local Bunnings in conjunction with a timer as you probably wouldn't need night time heating in Qld. Just try a couple of different wattages to get your temps right or run a dimming thermostat like a habistat or microclimate.

 

[miss_mosher]

I am also in QLD, and in Winter the temp drops a few too many degrees at night, so I have just a really small heat mat that I use for winter nights. some summer days can get too hot too so I turn the basking lamp off during the way and use smaller wattage bulbs.

 

[book]

I believe sun worshipers like Dragons and Monitors do best under a white heat lamp as they would normally bask in full sunlight. The coloured, infra red or dark lights are more useful if you want to run the heat lamp at night or for reptiles that bask in filtered light and may not appreciate the brightness.

Compact or tube UV are just about the space you can fit them in. A tube covers more area for the reptile to get UV under the full length. If it does not fit the tank, a UV compact close to the heat lamp is best so it gets UV while basking. In tubes I mostly use Sylvania Reptistar which only produce one type and don't give a % rate. In compacts I use the 10% but I don't think the 2% has any value as they will get more light from the white basking lamp.
You need to get the reptile within 300mm of the florescent UV source to be most effective. To far away and the UV doesn't get too them. If you use the UV above the glass, you may as well not buy the UV tube at all, nothing useful will get through. Here is another site to ad to your reading on UV and reptiles UV Guide UK - Ultraviolet Light for Reptiles - UVB reptile lighting on test
When my Ackies were still very young over their first winter I did put a heat cord under part of the enclosure for night heat but not for adults. Look at how cold your nights are compared to the natural habitat temps of the reptile you choose. Desert climates can get very cold at night, all though Ackies burrow into the sand which would stay warmer than air temps overnight.
Like you say, set up and see what temps you get and make adjustments from there. Ackies like hotter basking than Beardies.

 

[Tijah]

Thanks, everyone.

So it seems the going opinion is to get a white uncoloured basking lamp for desert dwellers. Here's something from the site I linked above in regards to white light:

If provided with a non-white light emitting heat source on one end of the enclosure, and a cool white light at the other, such as that emitted by fluorescents, the reptile will elect to sit under the white light because it is attracted to the light.

As bigjoediver suggested, we are probably going to get some form of thermostat, whether it's Habistat or Microclimate.

For the UV, we were intending to just get tubes, but it's the glass in the top of the tank that's complicating things. Here's another excerpt in regards to the compacts:

Compact UVB-producing fluorescents, however, are inappropriate for most herp enclosures as the UVR disperses so quickly over distance that larger reptiles receive too little UVB and will develop MBD. These compact lights, which are attractive as they screw into an incandescent-type fixture and take up less space, may be safe for reptiles whose adult size is small, say, no larger than the smaller anoles.

So I think, as you've all suggested, we need to go for the tubes and be a bit more creative on how to get the lizard closer to them. There are three 'doors' in the top of the tank that measure about 400mm wide each... it would be more expensive, but one option is getting three 15 or 18" units, therefore avoiding the glass dividers. The only thing then would be the distance.

@book -- I believe the reason Exo-Terra recommends combining the 2% with the 10% is for increasing visual light.

In regards to the heat during winter, etc.... if we invest in a light dimming thermostat, we shouldn't have to worry about getting too hot. I read somewhere that baby bearded dragons should actually have a slightly cooler enclosure than adults -- not sure about monitors.

From what I can gather, central to north-western temperatures vary greatly -- an average temperature would be about 35-45 degrees in summer, dropping to maybe 20-25 at night, and 15-25 degrees in winter, even dropping to freezing at night. With this in mind, we shouldn't have trouble -- our temperatures during the day range from high 20s to high 30s in summer and around 20-25 degrees in winter. Night-time temperatures drop to around 20 degrees in summer and anywhere between 0-15 degrees in winter.

And, finally, basking -- I've read that a beardie should get around 30-35 degrees, whilst monitors should get around 35-45.

Phew... that got a bit longer than expected. Thoughts?

 

[book]

Basking temps I use are more like, 30-35 deg for Blue Tongues, 35-45 deg for adult Beardies and 45-55deg for Monitors.
And yes, Exo-Terra recommends the 2% for increasing visual light but if you use a white basking lamp I don't see the point in paying the high price for another fancy white light globe.
If the glass parts on the top of the tank you are talking about is the support parts for the removable glass lids, you can cut the silicon and remove them. They don't give much structural support, and if the tank will not be used filled with water as a fish tank again, the stress at the top of the tank is minimal. You can stick in a much thinner support beam across the center only. UV tubes are available in approx 3foot (30W) and I think 4foot (36W) is the longest available. If you put two 30W tubes across your 6foot tank they will meet in the middle on the support/cross beam.

 

[andynic07]

So I think, as you've all suggested, we need to go for the tubes and be a bit more creative on how to get the lizard closer to them. There are three 'doors' in the top of the tank that measure about 400mm wide each... it would be more expensive, but one option is getting three 15 or 18" units, therefore avoiding the glass dividers. The only thing then would be the distance.

There is probably no reason that you couldn't use one larger tube, this would be cheaper than three individual ones and you will get the same amount of UV through the three 400mm openings. Your other option is to mount the tube inside the tank I guess.

 

[Tijah]

Well, there you have it -- my temperatures are all wrong. Monitors are hot -- I actually just came across another site that said he keeps his monitors at 55-65 degrees

I think book's suggestion of removing the glass dividers is the best thing I've heard today -- I actually thought these were an important structural part of the tank, so hadn't even gone there (though it had crossed my mind that it would be good to take them out).
We really are hoping not to have to mount the lights on the inside, as the tank is an aesthetic feature of two rooms.

So, we do have our old lighting setup from when the tank was an aquarium... the lights consist of 8 T8 tubes, 4 white, 4 actinic (blue). Each globe is 3' -- obviously, lighting in an aquarium is a lot more demanding than in a reptile tank. We were thinking we might get away using that reflector and just replacing the tubes with reptile tubes, but if we don't need 8, then I'll have to look around for another.

 

[bigjoediver]

In my 4ft enclosure I use a 60w CHE on a dimming thermostat in conjunction with a cheap R50 or R63 60w halogen spot on a timer. The CHE is on 24/7 to lift ambient temps and the spot 12hrs a day as a basking spot. I also use a 3ft uv tube on the same timer. I gave two adult dragons in there and they are doing fine.

 

[book]

So, we do have our old lighting setup from when the tank was an aquarium... the lights consist of 8 T8 tubes, 4 white, 4 actinic (blue). Each globe is 3' -- obviously, lighting in an aquarium is a lot more demanding than in a reptile tank. We were thinking we might get away using that reflector and just replacing the tubes with reptile tubes, but if we don't need 8, then I'll have to look around for another.

I kept marine fish before reptiles as well. The multi light hoods have been rusting out in the garage since.
There is no need to run that many tubes for your reptile and those hoods take up a lot of space. You still need room over the tank to fit your heat lamp.
Across one tank I use a single row 6foot aquarium light hood that contains two 3'/30W Reptile UVA/UVB tubes. Some brands of UV tubes produce more white light than others. If the brand you use is not bright enough, you could replace the one at the cool end (away from the heat lamp) with a normal room white tube. The lizard will just get the UV when up the basking end on the tank.
If you want more light and still keen on keeping the UV both ends then you could add a 3foot single hood at the cool end. I think even a hood for 4 T8 tubes, to run 2 UV and 2 White would crowd the heat lamp.
Look at how the heat lamp is going to be mounted first and then see what room you have to work with.

 

[Tijah]

In my 4ft enclosure I use a 60w CHE on a dimming thermostat in conjunction with a cheap R50 or R63 60w halogen spot on a timer. The CHE is on 24/7 to lift ambient temps and the spot 12hrs a day as a basking spot. I also use a 3ft uv tube on the same timer. I gave two adult dragons in there and they are doing fine.

I guess it's a fair bit colder down where you are. We're still debating whether we'll need a CHE.

We were also thinking of getting a halogen spot... they don't get quite as hot as incandescents, though. I suppose the couple of degrees don't make much of a difference. Are the halogens a better choice? We thought we'd go for halogen because they're supposed to have longer lifespans.

I kept marine fish before reptiles as well. The multi light hoods have been rusting out in the garage since.
There is no need to run that many tubes for your reptile and those hoods take up a lot of space. You still need room over the tank to fit your heat lamp.
Across one tank I use a single row 6foot aquarium light hood that contains two 3'/30W Reptile UVA/UVB tubes. Some brands of UV tubes produce more white light than others. If the brand you use is not bright enough, you could replace the one at the cool end (away from the heat lamp) with a normal room white tube. The lizard will just get the UV when up the basking end on the tank.
If you want more light and still keen on keeping the UV both ends then you could add a 3foot single hood at the cool end. I think even a hood for 4 T8 tubes, to run 2 UV and 2 White would crowd the heat lamp.
Look at how the heat lamp is going to be mounted first and then see what room you have to work with.

That's the unfortunate thing about converting from one to the other. The parts are just of no use.

The aquarium fixtures do take up a lot of space. I was looking around and like the idea of the Exo-Terra Light Cycle Unit (Exo Terra : Light Cycle Unit / Electronic Dimming Terrarium Lamp Controller). It has a built-in timer with a dawn-dusk period. They only hold 2 tubes, though.

Anyone have any experience with these?

If we did end up needing more light than just 2 UVs, what's the difference between using T8 tubes compared to regular household globes -- e.g. halogen, incandescent, LED. Obviously, there are varying wattages, but is there an advantage to using fluoros?

 

[bigjoediver]

I just use the halogen spots as they seem to be all that's available these days. A 40w halogen spot is equivalent to a 60w incandescent. As for flouros for lighting I only use my uv tube to provide lighting as well as the spot. In my python enclosures I use LED light strips for lighting and heat cords or mats for heat. There are so many ways to go its up to you. You could use a spot for hear plus a uv tube and make a heated hide area for night time using heat cord and a tile and put your hide on it if you are worried about low night time temps. One of our wildlife parks here in SA keeps a Lacie outside year round in a pit that has a heated enclosure in the middle if it for the cold periods.

 

[Tijah]

Yes, incandescents seem to be getting phased out.

So extra light isn't really needed, it just makes things more visible (obviously).

As I said originally, we're planning on getting a (halogen) basking lamp and a couple of UV tubes. The only thing is that I'm not sure it will be enough in a 6' tank.

I think the best option at this point would be to do what I said about the heating -- set up the essentials and see what it looks like from there.

I'm oh-so-eager to see it fully set up

 

[bigjoediver]

Please post pics when your done

 

[Tijah]

I absolutely will

 

[Tijah]

OK, we've run into a bump...

We know that UV lighting is essential for bearded dragons, but what about monitors? It seems to be an ongoing debate on forums, etc., as to whether you need to provide UV lighting for monitors. It also seems the more common opinion is that it isn't essential.

What's your opinion? It seems logical that UV lighting would be required, as they are desert dwellers, receiving more sun than many other species of reptiles.

So far, we've made all out plans with UV in mind, but we just wanted to get a second (fiftieth? ) opinion.

 

[bigjoediver]

If feeding whole prey items you would think they would get their calcium from their food like a snake. But I don't know enough about their physiology to be sure. Don't know if they need the uv to metabolize it or not.