Force feeding.... how often???

[Jay84]

Hey guys,

The story is, i have 2 Jungle hatchies. I obtained both of them at about a week out of the egg having not had their first shed or feed. They hatched middle of December.

One of the hatchies has had 4 feeds now. It shed AFTER the third feed which was last week.

The other hatche has continued to refuse its first feed. It also still has NOT had its first shed.Two nights ago i force fed it 2 sections of mouse tail, both 2cm long.

My question is, as it is such a small meal, should i do this every couple of days? Every day? Or should i wait a certain amount of time?

Thanks in advance for your advice

 

[pythonmum]

I don't think there is any hard and fast rule. I have two in my clutch that are not feeding on their own, so I just 'assist' them whenever I feed the others. I am not stuffing around with tails, but am using pinkies and small fuzzies. After doing this a few times the one which had not sloughed finally did so. I give them a chance to spend some quality quiet time with a rodent before pushing and shoving. Hopefully they will take the initiative soon!

 

[Jay84]

Thanks Pythomum. I am not experienced in forcefeeding and don't think id be able to shove a pinky down its throat. The tails go down quite easy.

I was just wondering whether i have to wait for the tails to be digested before forcing more? Being tails there is nothing to them so want to try and get as much in him as often as i can.

 

[cement]

I was just wondering whether i have to wait for the tails to be digested before forcing more? Being tails there is nothing to them so want to try and get as much in him as often as i can.

Make a decision Jay. Either shove in as much as you want or don't. This is called experience.
You could shovel in a heap of pinkies or whatever and find it may still not crap. If there's a small impaction
from undigested yolk the extra food might not be good, and might be why its not eating.

 

[Jay84]

Make a decision Jay. Either shove in as much as you want or don't. This is called experience.
You could shovel in a heap of pinkies or whatever and find it may still not crap. If there's a small impaction
from undigested yolk the extra food might not be good, and might be why its not eating.

But in doing so i may kill the poor thing which would = bad experience lol hence why asking for others experience.

The snakes digestion is fine, it has done quite a few small poos since hatchig, i assume digesting the remaining yolk etc so i don't think there is any blockage.

 

[pythonmum]

Mine generally poop on me when I am trying to restrain them for a force feeding . Since yours has done a bit of a poop, you may as well move on to something worthwhile. Is there someone experienced who can show you what to do? I was shown by an experienced herper many years ago when helping a friend with a slow-starting coastal (he is now 8 ft long). Never realized the skill would come in handy again. Remember how stretchy they are. Mine are doing much better now that I am using fuzzies - a more substantial meal. I think they are coming up to another shed. They have never been lethargic or behaved oddly. They have just been slow to start feeding on thawed prey. I assume you have tried braining, etc. It didn't work on mine, hence the big shove...

Coming to Sydney any time soon?

 

[Jay84]

Yeah I'll have to grab someone more experienced to show me how to force feed larger food items to get him going. I have tried braining and also scenting with my levis geckos and also gouldian finch feathers...... Not interested. I'm just hoping I can sustain him enough to induce shedding and until one day he will snap into feeding!!

Thanks for the advice. Plans for Sydney? Well Mardi Gras of course lol

 

[dee4]

There was an good article in S&T by Troy about assist feeding and force feeding. One of the 1st issues from memory.

 

[Elite_Reptiles]

Try an egg Jay. It's my last resort, but it works every time...

Just grab a normal chicken egg, crack it open into a small cup, beat it up a little with a fork and put it in the microwave for about 20 seconds so that it's nice and warm. Dip the head of your already thawed and warm pinky into the egg (head first), than offer to your hatchie (again, head first so that when he strikes he starts munching down without letting go).

Works a treat mate, but probably the most important thing to remember is that they are still very nervous when it comes to eating...so turn the lights off to make any movement hard to see in the dark and when he does take the pinky, do not make any sudden movements, any movement and he may let it go.

Let us know how you go.

 

[Brettix]

Hi Jay

I would be force feeding it with a day old pinkie mouse.
You can wet it or dip it in mutton bird oil to help it slide in.
Once you have it in i use the biggest snake probe i have to push it down so its atleast past its head.
Use your fingers to help slide it down into its stomach if it dosent do it itself once its in.

 

[pythonmum]

Yes, you have to massage the food down to the stomach in most cases. Sometimes mine will finish swallowing if I let them crawl back into their hide, but I make sure the food item is near the stomach and they are no longer holding their moth open. If still trouble at Mardi Gras, drop me a PM. I am in the same part of Sydney as Oliver and Tommy.

Jungle man - I will try that trick next feed!

 

[shellfisch]

There was an good article in S&T by Troy about assist feeding and force feeding. One of the 1st issues from memory.

Issue #3 if that helps

 

[Jay84]

Thanks guys... all great advice!

I will try the egg method a couple of times and see how i go..... if that fails then ill try force feeding a pinkie.

Thanks again guys

 

[The Devil]

It's only a month old so why bother trying to force feed at this early stage.
The longest I've had a hatchling go without eating was 6 yes 6 months. Once it started it powered along.

I'd be waiting for at least 3 months before going through the stress of force feeding. In the meantime try scenting with egg ect as has been suggested.
It is far easier to force feed a mouse tail or part rat tail than say a pinkie and isn't it a matter of educating the snake that what you are offering is actually a food item.

 

[Jay84]

I agree Nev, but this snake was a small hatchie, its not a big snake. It hasn't had its first shed yet and i don't think it will if it doesn't start getting some food into it. I can see it is loosing weight already....... also, i said it hatched mid december..... that makes it 2 months old.

 

[Colin]

personally I really don't assist feed any more but have done in the past.. some hatchies just take a little longer than others to start feeding. I prefer to wait until they decide to feed themselves and would just persevere with them and try offering food at night after they are moving around the tub.. if they strike but wont coil maybe leaving a pinkie in the tub overnight will tempt them.

 

[The Devil]

I agree Nev, but this snake was a small hatchie, its not a big snake. It hasn't had its first shed yet and i don't think it will if it doesn't start getting some food into it. I can see it is loosing weight already....... also, i said it hatched mid december..... that makes it 2 months old.

Having them miss the post hatch shed is not all that unusual, I've had a few do that this season and have their first shed after 3 or 4 feeds.
Maybe there is something else going on with that baby as the hatchie I had that was 6 months old before it decided to eat only lost 3 grams in weight.

If you are really concerned go with a mouse tail once a week and see what happens. I've not had one starve itself to death as yet.

Gotta agree with Colin, but then we can't see the babies condition ect.

 

[hugsta]

I normally let any fussy feeders I have go until they are at a point where I believe they are loosing too much condition, then I try assist/force feeding them. They will one day just go 'oh, it is food, I get it' and they will start feeding. Also, use something of substance, mice tails are a wase of time, rat tails as a minimum, but jungle hatchies are easily force fed pink mice. I force feed antaresia pink mice when needed so you should have no problems with jungles.

 

[cement]

But in doing so i may kill the poor thing which would = bad experience lol hence why asking for others experience.

The snakes digestion is fine, it has done quite a few small poos since hatchig, i assume digesting the remaining yolk etc so i don't think there is any blockage.

Yeah, occasionally through no fault of the keeper at all a hatchling will die.The're too small to correctly diagnose or operate on for some conditions. And some are just born to die. The majority of clutches hatched will have at least one with some form of defect.
Force feeding is a last resort, but that's up to you.
Why buy hatchlings at that age with no shed or feed, if you have no experience?

 

[Jay84]

Why buy hatchlings that have not shed or fed because i have had no experience you ask??

When will i be considered experienced enough? I have kept snakes and lizards for 17 years now, i have bred lizards for most of that time but never snakes...... in your opinion should i wait until i breed my snakes and then have to deal with a WHOLE clutch of potentially bad feeders? Or should i gain 'experience' from having one bad feeder first? So then when i do breed my own i have the first hand 'experience' to deal with it? Also, i have had hatchie snakes before that i have aquired before having their first feed and i managed to get them feeding with no need to forcefeed (hence why i still have no first hand 'experiece')

I was also basically given these snakes by a friend, i did not seek them out and buy them from a breeder or dealer. My friend is more than capable of giving me a hand with forcefeeding etc, but that would just be his way. When asking a question like this on a forum there are many different opinions and tricks to doing things. I thought i would gain the experience of many keepers and then see what works well for me.