Help - Boyd's has given up on life

[ingie]

About 6 months ago I purchased a boyd's forest dragon. I was looking for nice big healthy adults but ended up getting a soft spot for this 3 year old male that was being picked on and injured by the others he was kept with. He was smaller than the others, had missing claws, broken toes, bent tail and swollen/lumpy looking leg joints. He has no interest in food and has to be hand fed every meal.

I thought he would snap out of his depression when I removed him from his situation but he didn't completely. He still won't feed himself. Lately it has gone to a whole new level though. He just sits on the floor with his head on the ground looking like he has given up on life. It makes me so sad. Because he has been sitting on the cold bottom and not moving I have just put him in a small 3 foot wide x 2 foot tall 'hostpital enclosure' where I can make sure he is warm and see if he is pooing properly etc. There is a thermostat set to 25 degrees at the bottom and a shallow water dish. He is on newspaper with some bunches of fake plants to hide under. There is a 5% UV tube and a heat lamp. There is no point having vertical things in there because he isn't using them at the moment and he actually appears to have reduced movement in his legs and feet. I have been giving him a warm bath every couple of days. He looks like he has lost some weight so I have been syringe feeding him hills a/d mixed with a bit of warm water, and putting squashed woodies in his mouth with sporadic use of calcium powder and vitamin powder. I also open his mouth and drip water in.

A little about his original enclosure:
His enclosure has tall vertical branches to climb on, and fake plants and vines with lots of places to hide. He has a big water dish on the bottom with a heat cord under it to increase humidity, I also mist the enclosure frequently with warm water. During the warmer months of the year he has only a 5% UV spiral globe as anything else overheats his enclosure. The temperature fluctuates in the mid to high 20's. At this time of year I have a 60 watt globe in his enclosure hooked up to a thermostat that keeps the very top of the enclosure at 30 degrees, and it drops off to room temperature towards the bottom.


I really don't know what to do here. I would be happy to hear any advice on where I may have gone wrong, or what I could do to help him. Also if there is anyone in Brisbane with real EXPERIENCE owning Boyd's, who feels like they could help, I would give him to you. I just want him to be happy.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

One of the biggest issues with Boyds is dehydration, which can happen over a long period of time, especially with a stressed animal. I had a similar case, the animal looked totally emaciated and near death, and did as yours is doing now.

Notwithstanding that you got an animal with compromised health to begin with, and there may be other health issues at work...

I got a 1ml syringe (without needle) full of lukewarm water, and placed it into the animal's mouth, and gently pumped it into the animal. 3 times to start with, then a few hours later, twice, then at the end of the day, another 1ml. 6ml all up on the first day, and the turnaround was dramatic - the next day the lizard was active, hungry and looked like a different animal. I gave it about 2ml per day for a few days after that, and it has never looked back.

You need to keep the humidity up in the enclosure constantly - they will dehydrate over time, and often won't drink enough or as consistently as they should.

Try this and keep us posted...

 

[redlittlejim]

Hey ingie. i feel your pain. i recently had one of mine do this for about 6 weeks strait and i had to hand feed it as would never eat on its own and did the whole head on the ground thing everything identical. sadly i lost her (2and a half year old fem). hope it works out for you. only advice is to keep its fluids up with the mister all the time and maybe even try a pinkie mouse as it was the only thing mine ate half heartedly. not as a regular diet just as a one off to try and give it a bit of energy. i didnt try it but maybe try moving the light to the bottom where it lays as mine never seemed to have the energy or will power to climb to its light either,.
Best of luck. and sorry i dont have any overly helpful advice

yep as pythoninfinite said... hydration is big thing. i mist closer to its mouth so it trickles in.

 

[Erebos]

Sorry to here that your Boyd is not doing well. As stated above hydration is the key with these animals although you might be stressing it more by force feeding it try and leave some roatches in a small shallow tub on the ground (make sure they can't get out) and keep humidity up. I hope this helps and I hope your Boyd gets better.

 

[ingie]

Thanks for the support and information guys. My boyd's has access to a dish with fluon around the edges with some roaches in it but he never ever touches them I also give him water daily by syringe and always have because I was worried about him not drinking. Maybe I wasn't giving him enough though. I put him back in his original enclosure because he might feel less stressed in there. I will up the water and see what happens. For now he is sitting on his branch where I placed him.

 

[TaraLeigh]

:cry: This makes me sad.
Sorry I can't offer any information.
But good luck.

 

[Mr.James]

Ingie, can you post a photo of his current enclosure & the Boyd.

 

[ingie]

Yes I will tomorrow when the lights are on. It is the same one I was asking you for help about when I first got him! The enclosure is different though.

 

[Erebos]

Thanks for the support and information guys. My boyd's has access to a dish with fluon around the edges with some roaches in it but he never ever touches them I also give him water daily by syringe and always have because I was worried about him not drinking. Maybe I wasn't giving him enough though. I put him back in his original enclosure because he might feel less stressed in there. I will up the water and see what happens. For now he is sitting on his branch where I placed him.

If you spray him dose he lick his lips.

 

[ingie]

Not at the moment. He used to drink off his log when I sprayed above his head, but not recently. If I open his mouth a little bit and gently put water in with the syringe or spray bottle, he swallows it and doesn't struggle. He struggles when I put roaches in the side of his mouth, but after he stops spitting and has his first chew he will accept more.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

I would give it more water, at least 3 x 1ml syringes full the first day, and more after - dehydration is the big killer of these things, and it reduces appetite to nil. forget the supplements etc for now - just water. Water in the body over 24 hours will make a huge difference to behaviour, if that's the most significant problem. There is always a lesson to be learned when buying animals which are not in top condition - never buy something because it's in poor health and you feel sorry for it - always ends in tears...

Jamie

 

[redlittlejim]

and maybe he never was drinking? sometimes they only like running water...

 

[longqi]

To simulate running water just drop an air stone into the pond
Can use same air stone to make an air lift pump to be a small waterfall
Bubbles will also increase humidity quickly and easily

We had Comb Forest Dragons that were badly dehydrated
Gave them one of those sports energy drinks [like Lucosade or Staminade] by syringe and immersion
All came good very quickly

 

[ingie]

Oh that sounds good I have an air pump and stone here I will turn it on. Will get some sport drink tomorrow

 

[Naga_Kanya]

I was wondering about electrolytes. I'd suggest an animal electrolyte, or one without artificial colours/flavours/sugar just to make sure he doesn't have a reaction to any of them. We get an animal hydration powder for the ones I work with, and it's saved a few over the years. You should be able to pick up some from a vet or saddler if you have one locally. Exo Terra make a reptile specific one, if you can get your hands on it. I don't know that much about reptile hydration, but I know that in warm-blooded animals the required balance of things like magnesium phosphate, etc can vary from species to species.

Good luck. I hope he comes good. I really feel for you.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

To simulate running water just drop an air stone into the pond
Can use same air stone to make an air lift pump to be a small waterfall
Bubbles will also increase humidity quickly and easily

We had Comb Forest Dragons that were badly dehydrated
Gave them one of those sports energy drinks [like Lucosade or Staminade] by syringe and immersion
All came good very quickly

Good thinking - I must say that my Boyd's frequently come down to drink when I pour water into their waterbowl, as it's actually happening, and they often just submerge their heads for a minute or two, so moving water has a big attraction. But you'll probably have to get the animal over the physical and psychological depressive state it's in at the moment by forced hydration.

Jamie

 

[Renenet]

I can't offer any advice, but best of luck. I hope your Boyd comes good.

 

[Bluetongue1]

Just a few bits and pieces to help undersatnd the value of the good advice given...

I would agree do not feed it at the moment. Water only to begin with, as Pythoninfinite suggests. Activating the animal’s digestive system will remove fluid from circulation via the digestive juices secreted into the gut. If you think about it, the gut is not in the body but is continuous with the outside. You could pass a length of fishing line in one end and out the other unbroken. You want to allow the cells and circulatory system to recover from lack of water first, assuming they are able to and there is not a secondary issue.

All the animal needs food for after that, in the short term, is to supply energy. Carbohydrates provide energy. Glucose is the form to which carbohydrates are converted to be absorbed and utilised by the body. So basically glucose needs no digesting. You will find that the “energy” drinks contain glucose, so they can be used to provide energy or you could use glucose dissolved in water.

Reptiles do not sweat so they do not lose electrolytes as we do when active. However, as the internal volume of water drops the concentration of dissolved matter increases. The cells can only cope with a certain increase before their functioning is affected. The body converts and stores that which it can in insoluble form and the “excess” of those it cannot store are excreted by the kidneys. I am no expert either on rehydration but the concentrations 0f electrolytes are not going to be excessive in a bottle of drink a human might consume at one sitting. From what Longqi says I would imagine 5 mL of one of the drinks for a couple of days would do the trick.

Goodluck,
Blue

 

[ingie]

Thanks Bluetongue1

Ok I added the air pump but I have to buy a new air stone today so for now it is just bubbles coming out of the air tube into the water. I syringed him 6ml this morning over a few sessions (I have to go to work in a minute so couldn't do it throughout the day). I gave him a warm bath and put him back on his branch. He couldn't move his legs very well this morning.

Here is a photo of the enclosure. I know it is smaller than recomended for a Boyd's. Do you think this is a problem?
The light is very bright but it has a cage around it and there is a fake plant under it (which doesn't seem to be visible) so light is filtered onto him gently.

I am leaving now but I will take my computer to work to use on my lunch break, to see if you think I need to buy anything to adjust the enclosure. Thank you so much for your help everyone.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

The enclosure looks fine. Boyd's don't like strong light or high heat - they are forest dwellers, and rarely, if ever, bask as Bearded Dragons or Frillies do. 6 ml is rather a lot at once, and could possibly damage the kidneys. This should be a gradual process, allowing the tissues to absorb the fluids slowly. Much better to do it in small doses through the day - if you're not at home during the day, it won't matter if you space the doses out - an 8-10 hour gap between doses will be fine. The most important dose is the first one, which should get things moving in the right direction, and it will give you time to decide on followup.

Lack of movement or limb stiffness is a classic sign of dehydration in lizards, together with a generally darker colour, sunken eyes and prominent hip bones.

Jamie