in my garden will it bite me

[Bluetongue1]

Has no one sussed that this is a wind up!!!!

It is only recently that I have had the time to post on here with any regularity. I have had the displeasure of being involved in two “wind ups”. The second time I felt compelled to say something but the thread had disappeared completely, no trace.

I am amazed that individuals who start such threads are so thoughtless and inconsiderate of others in pursuit of their own amusement. I am more than happy to put in the time and effort to assist someone in genuine need. However, playing guessing games is a totally different ball game and I object most vehemently to wasting my time under false pretences.

I expect threads listed up the title of “Herp Help” to be genuine requests for assistance. Those that abuse the system should be dealt with in this way should be dealt with in a manner that discourages themselves and others from doing likewise. Call your thread a “Guess the species” or whatever and shove it else where. I could make a few salient suggestions as to where I believe it should be shoved but propriety dictates otherwise.

As for this thread, it is definitely looking more and more sus, particularly when you have been given a photo and you supposedly still have access to the animal. If no explanation is forthcoming in the next 24 hours I will happily report it to the Moderator to make enquires.

‘Not happy Jan’
Blue

 

[saratoga]

In Humpty Doo it's most likely to be either a Golden Tree Snake or a Western Brown going by the original description. It's surprising that very few have mentioned Western Brown, they are very common around there. Most of the Western Browns in the top end are lemonish brown with a smallish black mark behind the head, HOWEVER, you do occassionally see ones with Black heads and necks like BHPs! I haven't heard the name Gwardar being used in the Top End; I thought it was just used by those from WA.

The photo of the tree snake I dont think is really helpful here as to a novice the differences between the two are small and they will both look very similar. If it heads for the nearest tree in your backyard and climbs it then its a pretty safe bet that its a harmelss tree snake.

 

[notechistiger]

Just because someone doesn't reply to a thread within 24 hours, does not make them a troll. The fact that people are getting so worked up over a potentially very harmless wind up is hilarious. Really, who cares? A thread such as this is not worth hounding over if it is a wind up. Is anyone at all getting hurt? No. It's almost worth it to say "get over it".

 

[Bluetongue1]

The fact that people are getting so worked up over a potentially very harmless wind up is hilarious. Really, who cares? A thread such as this is not worth hounding over if it is a wind up. Is anyone at all getting hurt? No. It's almost worth it to say "get over it".

I don’t have a problem that you don’t care if it is a wind up or not. Why then do you have a problem that I do care?

I spelt out my reasons clearly enough. I am assuming that you did read them and you did understand them. Why then ask “Who cares?”

Yes, I know the question was rhetorical, designed to belittle the significance of the reasons given for caring. And belittling hot on the heels of stating that such concern is virtually nothing more than highly comical - some thing be laughed at long and hard. A nice little touch at the end there... stating without stating. A good ploy! Definitely throws that shroud of questionable character over me, without actually saying so.


I do care, irrespective of your values, whatever they may be, and irrespective of your derision of mine. I see it clearly as matter of principle, irrespective of the length or complexity of the thread. The latter have no bearing on the matter at hand. The attitude you demonstrate is that which encourages these annoying time wasting exercises done for the amusement of few but affecting many. There is provision within the forum for people to play these games elsewhere.

In answer to your ambiguous question: “Is any one at all being hurt?”. If we take the meaning of hurt in the physical sense, then obviously the answer is NO. But since when does the absence of physical blows or pain justify an action? If we take the meaning of hurt in the metaphysical sense, than the answer is YES. There are those who would rather spend their time, energy and resources on less frivolous pursuits. It is apparent that you are either not aware of this (which should not be the case as it was explained earlier) or you have no tolerance of it. You may not value your time but I value mine.

Just because someone doesn't reply to a thread within 24 hours, does not make them a troll.

My original questions, the photograph and moosenoose’s question about whether the snake (supposedly) seen was like that in the photo, were all posted 25 May. My last post was the 29 May. How many lots of 24 hrs are there between the 25 and the 30 May?

In conclusion, all I will say is we have differing values. All I would ask is that you please respect that in future.

Blue

[FONT=&quot]Postscript[/FONT][FONT=&quot]:[/FONT] I finally got to go back to the Herp Help after checking on this thread, So much time wasted locating ands checking on what was happening; then thinking about whether to ignore your post or address it; conceding the need make it clear this was no whimisical whinge, followed by composing the reply. Back at the Herp Help forum, somewhat further down the list, was a chap who needed urgent advice. Fires behind his house had enveloped his place in smoke and his snakes were struggling to breathe. Luckily, he did have 2 posters who provided the essence of what he needed to do. I provided further advice which will be too late to act on. Hopefully he will either do it anyway or the other actions may render it unnecessary. We shall just have to wait and see.

Had I not been stuffing around on this thread, I would have seen his in time to have him read my post. I think this warrants a YES answer for both meanings of “hurt”.

 

[notechistiger]

You think far too hard about these things. I think that's all that need be said, really, because you're getting worked up over a thread on the INTERNET (or you take things very personally). Not to mention, you have zero evidence that this is a troll other than the fact the OP hasn't come back to reply. Perhaps he already got his answer. Perhaps he doesn't have access to the internet any more.

Either way, not point continuing. After all, I'm just wasting more of your time, right?

 

[longqi]

Maybe he went to play with the Golden Tree Snake


And it was little Brownie


Someone will follow the smell eventually

 

[Bluetongue1]

You think far too hard about these things. I think that's all that need be said, really, because you're getting worked up over a thread on the INTERNET (or you take things very personally). Not to mention, you have zero evidence that this is a troll other than the fact the OP hasn't come back to reply. Perhaps he already got his answer. Perhaps he doesn't have access to the internet any more.

Either way, not point continuing. After all, I'm just wasting more of your time, right?

Obviously I was either too gentle with you or you are lacking the synaptic connections required to take on board what I said.

For me, it is not a case of having to “think far too hard” – it actually comes very easily. I can only assume that such is not the case for yourself!

You have made the assumption I am getting “worked up”. Where does that come from? So everyone that states a point of view contradictory to yours is “getting worked up”? Show me the inflammatory words or phrases that support this contention. Could it be that you mistake simple rational logic for emotional outbursts? In case you were unaware, there is a difference between unimpressed and “being worked up”.

If I took things very personally I would have shredded you for your original derisive comments. I didn’t. Count yourself lucky!

Your concern for the originator of the thread is very touching. I am not quite sure, though, why you feel the need to come to his defence as you have done. All I have said I would do is to contact a moderator and let them ask the questions. I did make a judgement of the person other than to say the circumstances were looking very suspect. I agree whole heartedly that there may be a simple, reasonable explanation. However, it is not in my power to find out. That is why I am happy to hand it on. I don’t see why you have a problem with that? Perhaps a little less presumption on your part might help. Actually… would definitely help.

As for wasting my time? No, you are not. I like to spend my time helping others amongst other things. If I can assist in correcting your incorrect notions, even to some degree, then that is not time misspent.

I don’t take it personally although on rare occasions I will respond to a personal attack in kind, but not on the same level. If you read and took on board the conclusion in my previous post you would realise I have no objection to you, only the values you espouse.

Just a last comment. The internet has a huge potential audience. I don’t really understand why you put it into capitals in a sentence designed to minimise the importance of “getting worked up”.

Relax and enjoy!
Blue

 

[Darlyn]

I think if you look back, he hasn't posted since he was told it was safe.

 

[Bluetongue1]

Point taken. However, there are two separate issues here.

One is the general issue of “wind ups” which is what I have spent most of my time on.

The second issue is the poster not replying. It appears that he has made an assumption based on one person’s post. Yet from what we have been told by him, although it is most likely a GTS, the possibility of a Western Brown has not been ruled out. And in 5 days he has not bothered to check on a thread he started. The reasons could be many but if he has simply chosen to tune out, somebody of appropriate position needs to explain to him the etiquette of the system and point out the need for a reinforced positive ID for his own safety.

As I said earlier, I have not passed judgement on this person. It is simply not what I and others would consider to be normal. As such, it warrants some follow up – to find out why they haven’t checked the thread they started and then to take the appropriate action. That could be education, it could be suspension, it could be something else. What ever it is, the emphasis is on the word APPROPRIATE.


Blue

 

[saximus]

You want them to be reprimanded for not checking back on their thread? Come now Blue I know you're smarter than that. If that is what happened I understand the frustration of you putting in the time and effort to give considered responses (even though you said it comes easily, it still took effort on some level) but I think you gotta let it go. Even if it was a gee up there's no reason to get upset (except, once again for the effort you've put in). Just laugh it off and move on I say

 

[kawasakirider]

The second issue is the poster not replying. It appears that he has made an assumption based on one person’s post. Yet from what we have been told by him, although it is most likely a GTS, the possibility of a Western Brown has not been ruled out. And in 5 days he has not bothered to check on a thread he started. The reasons could be many but if he has simply chosen to tune out, somebody of appropriate position needs to explain to him the etiquette of the system and point out the need for a reinforced positive ID for his own safety.

Poor forum etiquette should be dealt with very seriously. Corporal punishment seems apt.

 

[saximus]

Poor forum etiquette should be dealt with very seriously. Corporal punishment seems apt.

Haha what do you suggest? Cutting off a finger for every offence? I reckon a few of us would be typing with our noses in no time...

 

[kawasakirider]

Haha what do you suggest? Cutting off a finger for every offence? I reckon a few of us would be typing with our noses in no time...

A stoning, perhaps?

 

[Bushman]

Blue makes great contributions to this forum. He's knowledgeable, intelligent and helpful, so have some respect please guys.
The original poster may well be in hospital after being bitten by the "harmless" snake when reaching for a tool or trying to take photos. Whether they are dead, hospitalized or perfectly fine, it should be realized that the advice we give to those genuinely seeking help could cost them their lives. It's no laughing matter.
Pseudonaja should have been mentioned earlier and appropriate warnings given to the the O.P.
There is way too many inexperienced members here giving poor advice on snake I.D's, sometimes jokingly saying "it's a Keelback" that may be taken seriously by members of the public seeking advice.

 

[saximus]

Blue makes great contributions to this forum. He's knowledgeable, intelligent and helpful, so have some respect please guys.

If that was aimed at me I don't think I was being disrespectful. I think the punishment should fit the "crime" and I think that a guy having a bit of a joke shouldn't be suspended for it. I've thanked Blue for his contributions a few times and I appreciate the time and thought that goes into his posts but I just think there's no need to get cranky about this.

There is way too many inexperienced members here giving poor advice on snake I.D's, sometimes jokingly saying "it's a Keelback" that may be taken seriously by members of the public seeking advice.

I disagree with this. If you put an ID thread up it should be a given that you don't just go with the first answer. If you're too stupid to at least wait for a consensus from a few posters and then do some of your own research and Google the names you're given then that's your own fault.

 

[kawasakirider]

Blue makes great contributions to this forum. He's knowledgeable, intelligent and helpful, so have some respect please guys.
The original poster may well be in hospital after being bitten by the "harmless" snake when reaching for a tool or trying to take photos. Whether they are dead, hospitalized or perfectly fine, it should be realized that the advice we give to those genuinely seeking help could cost them their lives. It's no laughing matter.
Pseudonaja should have been mentioned earlier and appropriate warnings given to the the O.P.
There is way too many inexperienced members here giving poor advice on snake I.D's, sometimes jokingly saying "it's a Keelback" that may be taken seriously by members of the public seeking advice.

Calm ya farm, I was just joking. Sorry Blue, it just may be a case of someone not jumping on the net. I've been guilty of joining a forum and losing interest.

 

[Bushman]

Fair enough, no worries guys. I've PM'd the original poster to try and get through. There's not much else we can do.

 

[Bluetongue1]

Cutting off fingers and stoning? For God’s sake, come on guys! What century do you think we are living in? I can’t believe you are making these suggestions.

Laser surgery imprinting a large capital “L” on their forehead would be much more appropriate.

No, I did not mention reprimand. That would be for the forum supervisors to use.

By etiquette being explained, I think it appropriate that if someone starts a thread they should at least “finish it” by either providing a “I did this” or saying “thankyou and goodbye”. These are the sorts of things you would do in the face to face world. Why should it be any differ because it is a forum?

No, I am not worked up. To state your beliefs with reasons does not require nor is it indicative of, a state of emotional turmoil (which would, in fact, be counter productive to clear thinking). Far too often people on this form tell others to calm down, chill out, don’t get so worked up etc. That, to my mind, is not acceptable. Firstly because it is clearly a personal comment aimed at the individual. Secondly it belittles what that person has to say by implying that they are in an emotional state and therefore incapable of clarity, logic and reason.

Yes, I was pissed off by some comments. I don’t mind people taking what I say to task but I do have a problem when they deliberately aim to discredit me in order to discredit what I say. I do believe this is an issue which APS has failed to address because it happens way too often. Target what is said, NOT who said it!

With respect to windups – I have spell out how I feel and in the process there was an incident that vindicated what I was saying. If you have a different attitude then so be it. I will re-emphasise one point however, in case people missed that one – that being that I contend they have no place in the “Herp Help Forum”!

Thankyou for the positive feedback. Please don’t hesitate to disagree with something I say. I do not know it all and am more than happy to be corrected if it means I am gaining knowledge or understanding. As for stoning and finger loss – thanks for the humour, had a good laugh. Just one comment, I think I’d be sharpening the elbows so I could see what I was typing while I was typing it.

Blue

 

[saximus]

Good to hear from you Blue. I was hoping you hadn't gotten offended and given up on this one. I guess differing opinions on what's funny as a gee up is at the base of this.
Also though I think on the forum when someone says "you're upset" or, in my case, "cranky" it's slightly different to the real life meaning. Maybe replace that with "took exception to" to get closer to what I meant

 

[Bluetongue1]

Thank you for your obviously genuine concern. It is much appreciated, but not necessary – am thick skinned and broad shouldered.

There a number of things that happen with APS that I believe detract from what is otherwise a potentially excellent forum. A number of these seem to be ingrained and expected. I was endeavouring to address one when another cropped up followed by another. Little wonder it gets messy and you loose the message. So here are the three issues:

1. Use of the Herp Help Forum for playing practical jokes = wind ups.
2. Attacks on a person instead of keeping it to the information in their post.
3. The potential hazards associated with an incorrect ID of a snake.

The first two I have discussed sufficiently already. I might just make the point that I have been known as a bit a prankster at times and I have no problem with the wind ups as such. My problem is with them when in the Herp Help Forum. Unfortunately I did not make that clear early enough and I apologise that this may have unnecessarily protracted the discussion. I think it would be a healthy thing for all members to see it and use it as a seriously in need of help section of APS – no crap allowed.

Longqi and Bushman referred to number 3. I know we don’t know why the individual (OP is it?) didn’t check back. So let’s just get past that and make the discussion general and any examples hypothetical.

First off let’s look at responses. I am bewildered and amazed by some of the responses to ID requests. Some people will say, well I don’t really know much about this group but it might be such and such. I don't have to much of an issue with that - it is a waste of time but at least they are up front. However, some of the responses with no qualification on the poster’s experience with that group are so far wrong it’s ridiculous. If you do not know you ars# from you elbow when it comes to ID of particular animals, why the hell are you posting? To get your stats up? It doesn’t help and it might hinder.

Where the ID involves a snake, the stakes go up in a quantum leap. If an elapid is misidentified as a harmless colubrid or boid, the potential for serious consequences is a reality. If the animal is trapped or stuck and poster believing it harmless, decides to free it, you can well imagine the likely outcome from a very stressed out elapid. We would all want to hope that someone was not silly enough to do that, but... I have also noted a number of posters giving the advice to leave it alone where any doubt exists, which is great. So unless you really know your stuff on snake ID, you should stay out of it!

Those requesting an ID do need to wait for a consensus, as pointed out by Saximus. However, I did see a thread that had at least four posters say Keelback, all as joke, but as Bushman clearly pointed out, it’s no laughing matter. I will say that I have never seen anyone advise the person to google the species to check. I would also point out, that with some species, a visual comparison is not enough. For example, using one mentioned earlier, I would not expect a lizard person to be able to distinguish between a Keelback and a Rough Scaled Snake even with Google pictures.

Members who start posts should also end them. People have put in time and effort to help you out, the least you can do is return a bit of that by letting people know the outcome. Manners, etiquette, politeness, common decency, consideration… call it what you will – it should happen!

Last bitch for the evening – the amount of information given. Somewhere on the site there should be a list of the things to include when asking for an ID. I all but fall over at the appalling brevity of most. Top of the list should be an exact location, even if it is the same as your location specified on your posts. A number of times the location has been different and the poster neglected to say so. What the snake was doing and what sort of terrain it was in, in detail. For example, "on the back fence" – what sort of fence was it? how high? how high was the snake? was it climbing over it or along it? and this before we get to describing the snake. Yes, I know – there is no substitute for decent in-focus photo. Anyway, enough said.

Blue