in my garden will it bite me

Discussion in 'Herp Help' started by hilbilliemobile, May 25, 2011.

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  1. Bushman

    Bushman Very Well-Known Member

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    Well said Blue. I reckon the guts of your post should be the start of a new thread and be made a sticky. (I'll do it if you don't).
    This thread amplifies the need for snake I.D threads to be carefully monitored.
    I think that this is critically important and hopefully the mods/admin can help with this.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2011
  2. saximus

    saximus Almost Legendary

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    Alright I'll concede you make very good points there (you should join the debaters group, although you may be hindered by the 1000 character post limit :p). I have been guilty of the "I don't know x group but it looks like a y", although that was a lizard and my ID was correct but I see your point with snakes and the care required when the animal may be a dangerous species. I guess this discussion is probably moot in this thread but I like yours and Bushman's idea of informing people of the need to be serious in honest ID threads, or to at least indicate that your answer isn't serious (I've always said we need an emoticon or an agreed text colour to indicate you're being sarcastic). Anyway that's about all I've got left to say. I look forward to seeing more of your mini essays in the future Blue (even when you're proving me wrong :p)
     
  3. Jungle_Freak

    Jungle_Freak Very Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a Green Tree Snake to me .
    Just hope the poor frightened guy survived his close encounter with such a big bad snake.
     
  4. Bushman

    Bushman Very Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you haven't been following the discussion Roger.
    Your post typifies the sort of casualness regarding snake I.D's that we've been warning against.

    What are you basing your identification upon? The vague description given by the original poster I assume. Sure it could be Dendrelaphis punctulata (indeed it probably is) but it could also be Pseudonaja nuchalis, a dangerously venomous elapid that also fits the description and occurs in the same area.
    Why can't it be a Pseudonaja nuchalis?

    Not having a go at you Roger but how can you make that call based on the description given?
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2011
  5. Jungle_Freak

    Jungle_Freak Very Well-Known Member

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    Thats all i based my opinion on was the original posters description .
    Went with my gut feeling etc But your right it may be a western Brown .
    I read the first post and skipped ahead and posted my comment etc

    Next time ill read more ....
     
  6. waruikazi

    waruikazi Legendary

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    Well said mate esp in regards to ID threads.

    Unfortunately noobs don't seem to understand the dangers of a mis-id'd snake and seem to think they have some god given right to make stab in the dark guesses. If you don't know then shut up and listen/read you will learn something and you won't get anyone hurt in the process.

     
  7. Bushman

    Bushman Very Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Roger. No worries 8)
    By the way, that's an amazing looking Jungle you've got there in your avatar.
     
  8. eipper

    eipper Very Well-Known Member APS Veteran

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    Hi all,

    You mean people on aps get id's wrong.......not likely you just need to look at their post count to tell if they have experience.

    In all seriousness though.....this particular case highlights a problem with id threads.....people often genuinely think they know what something is and they think they are helping.....instead of hindering. There is simply no way to tell what species it is, in this case and yet we have two possible alternatives (mind you I can think of at least a third) but without further information there is simply no way to work out who is right.

    The amount of times I have said if you don't know don't comment seems to fall on deaf ears.....much like the so called advice that this is harmless and that is not....after having involvement in or knowing of 4 cases of so called near harmless species/genera causing death or very serious systematic effects, i have completely dismissed the notion that its that species/genera you will be fine.

    In every id case there is potential for a stuff up. The rate at these mistakes occur depends on the level of expertise of the person giving the id. Unfortunately this forum like almost every other, does not have the capacity to indicate to the person requesting the id, the true expertise level of the person involved in giving them their "id".

    Cheers,
    Scott
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2011
  9. Cockney_Red

    Cockney_Red Well-Known Member

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    What should be made a sticky on this forum, is simple...Most Australian snakes are venomous, and it is against the law to, interfere with any wildlife, and should be doubly so for snakes. If you find any snake in your house, or on your property, call on an experienced snake catcher from your area to remove it. Do not attempt to kill, or remove it yourself!
    I never try to ID any snake on here, for the simple reason that the photo's are always crap, and I dont want to make a tit of myself...:) In the flesh, or not at all.
    The old saying, their is no antidote for stupidity, will always rule when it comes to snakes..:)
    I, like many others on this forum, prove testament to that saying, over the years. Jumped off the plane from London in 88, and was out grabbing every snake i could get my hands on..:) Bit more sensible nowadays, so hopefully wont die by the sword...
     
  10. jeska84

    jeska84 Not so new Member

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    they have no fangs? sounds like my type of snake
     
  11. hilbilliemobile

    hilbilliemobile Not so new Member

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    no i havent't gone hunting around in my tool cupboard looking for this pretty fellow, he may be goodlooking - but not cute enough for me. because i didn't get a definate answer i left him all alone. so bushman you reckon he can kill me, well its a definate then any jobs requiring tools will just have to wait a wee while then
     
  12. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 Guest

    Good to hear back from you hibilliemobile. We were wondering what happened to you, as you disappeared early with no indication you were going or why. There was concern that it might have been a wind up. There was also concern that the snake in question may have been a Western Brown (Gwardar) which has caused numerous fatalities. It did not sound like it but without more information one could not be sure.
    I think I being leaving the door to the tool cupboard open for a day or two and keeping my leather gloves on and eyes wide open when I emptied the cupboard to check.

    Blue
     
  13. omg_a_gecko

    omg_a_gecko Active Member

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    [​IMG]
    Western Brown Snake, Pseudonaja nuchalis, Gwardar
     
  14. waruikazi

    waruikazi Legendary

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    Nuchalis are now considered the 'northern' brown. The western brown or gwardar has been redescribed as Pseudonaja mangdeni. But apart form that everything you say is correct.

     
  15. omg_a_gecko

    omg_a_gecko Active Member

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    this added another species i've ticked off my life list elsewhere, good excuse to catch up on Wilson and Swans 3rd edition c:
    thanks Waruikazi
     
  16. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 Guest

    I have deliberately avoided using that taxon because I was not sure it was universally accepted. Unfortunately a number of Wells & Wellington’s revisions were found to be wanting. Anyway, accepting the split, I would say that the most appropriate common names would be Mengend’s Brown for P. mengendi and Western Brown or Gwardar for P. nuchalis, given the huge overlap in distribution and how far south nuchalis is found over a very large area.

    Below is the colour form I had in mind. This pic comes from the “Reptiles Down Under” site and is no doubt copyrighted, so please don’t use it. It is in fact listed as P. mengendi, so there is a question mark if this colour morph is found in nuchalis. To date megendi has been apparently been collected from central NT and northern WA so I doubt it occurs around Humpty Doo.


    Blue
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 6, 2011
  17. waruikazi

    waruikazi Legendary

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    Blue i can pretty well guarantee that the mengdeni do not occur in or anywhere close to H-Doo like you say. We do get a black-headed phase of nuchalis up here but it looks different to mengdeni in that they don't tend to show the classic orange body, it's more of a dull grey. Another interesting observation is that all of the blackhead nuchalis are giants! David Reed told me he found a r/k that went 1.8m and the one in the picture below was 1.5-6m.
     

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  18. hilbilliemobile

    hilbilliemobile Not so new Member

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    hi all you snake lovers and helpful people, still havent seen a picture posted that bears any resemblance to my snake, but enjoying the conversation that he has sparked. I am still avoiding any work requiring tools, at least while my excuse still works. he was bright yellow, no white stripes or such, and a black head, could have been dark blue, very pretty to look at, not that i was hanging around gazing adoringly at him. Meanwhile I will keep logging on to see if anyone comes up with a name to my little mate.
     
  19. Jungle_Freak

    Jungle_Freak Very Well-Known Member

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  20. hilbilliemobile

    hilbilliemobile Not so new Member

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    yeah that looks alot like my little mate, but he was more yellow ( banana yellow)
     
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