John Howard new laws

[Tetras]

Hey felix mate.
Yer we are on the same page. i was using that as an example. i.e
We would all be shatered if we could no longer keep reptiles. Imagine of the man turned around and said " nope, no more doing what you really enjoy doing" (keeping snakes and so forth).
Same as the aboriginals in NT. they like what they are doing and when Johny boy turns around and says nope, no more of that, they get pissed off.

 

[salebrosus]

Hey felix mate.
Yer we are on the same page. i was using that as an example. i.e
We would all be shatered if we could no longer keep reptiles. Imagine of the man turned around and said " nope, no more doing what you really enjoy doing" (keeping snakes and so forth).
Same as the aboriginals in NT. they like what they are doing and when Johny boy turns around and says nope, no more of that, they get pissed off.

But its not the drinking that has forced them to act its the rape, especially of young children when they are on the drink that has sparked the dramas and moreso because of it's frequency.

Simone.

 

[Midol]

and if these communitys are statistically more often indigenous, its racist?

I asked for statistics to show they are more often committed in indigenous communities (child abuse) and you couldn't provide them. No one has provided them.

Even if it was, then yes, it'd still be racist.

These 'rules' should apply to EVERYONE (as in the welfare is spent on 'proper' things) then the other rules applied to every community in trouble (which is actually lower socio-economic communities NOT indigenous communities) along with adequate education including rehabilitation clinics.

 

[Felix]

Understood, however as Australians, we uphold the Australian way of life, which does not accept child abuse by anyone, regardless of color or locality.
We either uphold our laws and prosecute accordingly, or turn a blind eye to the same offenses everywhere.
I might like to smoke pot aswell and be unhappy if Jhonny says nae, tough luck really. Its against the law.
There is a very big difference between reptile keeping and abusing children, therefore I ask if were on the same page because your example/analogy is poor. sorry.

 

[Felix]

Even if it was, then yes, it'd still be racist.

how so? you ask for statistics therefore we assume you trust them? how are statistics (if correct) racist?

 

[Midol]

and if these communitys are statistically more often indigenous, its racist?

how so? you ask for statistics therefore we assume you trust them? how are statistics (if correct) racist?

The rules will be racist as long as the only apply for a set race. IT doesn't matter if the percentage of indigenous rapes are slightly higher, it means whites are doing it as well and the rules should go across the board.

The most recent national figures available are from 2004-05 from Child protection Australia 2004–05 published by The Australian Institute of Health and Welfare.

Notifications of all types of abuse across states:
NSW: 133,636
VIC: 37,523
QLD: 40,829
WA: 3,206
SA: 17,473
TAS: 10,788
ACT: 7,275
NT: 2,101

Substantiated claims:
NSW: 15,493
VIC: 7,398
QLD: 17,307
WA: 1,104
SA: 2,384
TAS: 782
ACT: 1,213
NT: 473

Substantiated claims by State/territory and breakdown of indigenous to 'other' population:
New South Wales- Indigenous: 1,642 (Other: 7,556)
Victoria: Indigenous: 770 (Other: 6,244)
Queensland: Indigenous: 1,186 (Other: 11,700)
Western Australia: Indigenous: 353 (Other: 682)
South Australia: Indigenous: 481 (Other: 1,317)
Tasmania: Indigenous: 37 (Other: 599)
ACT: Indigenous: 99 (Other: 758)
Northern Territory: Indigenous: 319 (Other: 128)

Children who were the subject of a substantiated report: sexual abuse, by Indigenous status and state and territory(by per cent)
NSW: 11% (Other: 19%)
VIC: 4% (Other: 10%)
QLD: 4% (Other: 6%)
WA: 20% (Other: 23%)
SA: 2% (Other: 7%)
TAS: 30% (Other: 13%)
ACT: 3% (Other: 6%)
NT: 6% (Other: 6%)

Note: substantiated reports show that in the NT, the percentage rate of substantiated sexual abuse cases of indigenous and 'other' is the same percentage.

 

[Midol]

Understood, however as Australians, we uphold the Australian way of life, which does not accept child abuse by anyone, regardless of color or locality.
We either uphold our laws and prosecute accordingly, or turn a blind eye to the same offenses everywhere.
I might like to smoke pot aswell and be unhappy if Jhonny says nae, tough luck really. Its against the law.
There is a very big difference between reptile keeping and abusing children, therefore I ask if were on the same page because your example/analogy is poor. sorry.

Then why not apply the rules to everyone. If we are stamping out child abuse shouldn't we stamp it out of all communities or are white people allowed more leeway when they abuse children?

 

[Tetras]

ahh yes true. But (no offence intended) the people in remote indiginous communites enjoy the raping side of their life, or else why would they do it?

 

[Felix]

If there is more abuse among indigenous communitys than non indigenous and therefore your

identified through a new task force

imposes the program on them more often than non indigenous accordingly but still on both, how is it racist? its simpley fact and the result of your new policy.

 

[Felix]

Then why not apply the rules to everyone. If we are stamping out child abuse shouldn't we stamp it out of all communities or are white people allowed more leeway when they abuse children?

exactly my point when I said earlier, you are Australian and subject to our law or you are not, there is no diplomatic immunity for child abusers! One law for all. Its been proposed to begin in those communitys because according to somebody its most openly prevalent there!
call that as you wish.

ahh yes true. But (no offence intended) the people in remote indiginous communites enjoy the raping side of their life, or else why would they do it?

thats a bit offensive, but that as it may, it returns us to my earlier question regards why this behaviour is apparently prominent among them in the first place. Until you find the true cause you cant properly address the issue, its a bit like guessing at whats wrong with a herp and concluding that if you change the waterbowl all will be well.
Rather you look at what might be causing the problem before you can address a course of action most likely to be affective.

 

[Midol]

ahh yes true. But (no offence intended) the people in remote indiginous communites enjoy the raping side of their life, or else why would they do it?

THAT is just straight up racism.

Not to mention the report identified that the majority if the abuse came from white men, the indigenous communities sold their kids to the white man.

If there is more abuse among indigenous communitys than non indigenous and therefore your


imposes the program on them more often than non indigenous accordingly but still on both, how is it racist? its simpley fact and the result of your new policy.

The difference is my task force has the ability to impose these restrictions on any community, instead of just indigenous communities which is how it currently works.

It doesn't matter if the restrictions are imposed on them more often, what matters is that they are the ONLY ones with the restrictions.

 

[Midol]

exactly my point when I said earlier, you are Australian and subject to our law or you are not, there is no diplomatic immunity for child abusers! One law for all. Its been proposed to begin in those communitys because according to somebody its most openly prevalent there!
call that as you wish.

No. Not all indigenous communities are bad. That is why it is racist. There are white communities where it is more prevelant than neighboring indigenous communities.

Why can't you understand that imposing laws based on RACE is RACIST. If the government did a study and targeted ALL communities in the NT with high child abuse rates white communities would come into it as well and it would no longer be judged on race. The special task force ONLY analysed indigenous communities.

 

[6ftpythonsgirl]

love to make trouble

Firstly I Would like to say that this is driving me crazy I have been reading this thread while at work today and have been bursting to add my 2 cents..
Or maybe my dollar
Firstly for those people saying its racist to want to help The Aboriginal communities of Australia please do explain how?? Remember the Aim is to help a community with an issue so how is it Racist??? Explanations for this should be summed up in a sentence, which will make it interesting
Is world vision Racist for helping all those poor little black children? Why aren't they helping little white kids starving while mummies getting a crack fix? I means Please… Racist? You want Racist Try this
Porch Monkey
Nigger
Abbo
Coon
That’s Racist, "Sorry you have a Drinking and Child Abused Problem in your area at a very alarming Rate and we are doing this to help" just not as bad.
And for those intending to answer with " because its Targeting a specific group" well dah if they targeted everyone it wouldn’t make sense your average
Community doesn’t have an alcoholic, fuel sniffing, no respect for anyone including themselves problem.. Well at least not my community so it would be silly for Old Johnny to ban me from porn and Grog..Can you Imagine that Speech " >From May 3rd All People in the upper middle class areas of Nth QLD that work for a living will have grog and Porn banned". I mean seriously *** sense would that make? But head to Darwin and I promise you that it will shock you. However this approach could be used in some lower class areas were women have children to get money. But they don’t live in communities as such in the way Aboriginal people do. There are always a few here and there but never all in one spot in such a large group.
Secondly he is a politician I say a again Dah of course he is using everything a political stunt his whole career is based on votes so why does that shock and outrage people? BUT that doesn’t change the fact that something needs to be done and he is trying something. You cant fix the world all at once so Focusing on a particular group is a normal start..
It has been mentioned that money has been taken away from the Aboriginals around 400 000 000 or something huge like that? Well it didn’t help them when they had it so why keep giving it to them?
Children used to be the pride of any culture.. But in these Aboriginal cultures there are children running around in Dirty nappies playing in filth and empty beer cans litter the streets. And no its not just in aboriginal communities But they seem to hang out in rather larger groups so its easier to implement some sort of action.

 

[Tetras]

Good one Felix

behind u all the way mate.
You are either australian or not. excellent. it doesnt matter what colour skin you have or what you ancestors done.

If you are drunk and abuse children then you should be dealt with. simple as that. I dont know why people are going on about how racist it is. Sure john is prob just tryign to get re - elected but ateast he is doin something good to get re - elected.

 

[Tetras]

6ftopythonsgirl.

Spot on! im happy that this thread has kepy you interested during the day.
If a white community was abusing children and had an alcohol problem then this would not of even been on the news.

Thanks for posting.

 

[Felix]

I think its a pavlovian responce, pavlovs dogs salivated when he rung a bell, some people jump up and cry 'racist' when anything is said about aboriginal people!
Some of them say 'sorry' everytime!
racism works both ways, you take it to its extreme it becomes reversed!
Its the biggest obstacle to national unity there has ever been, and the biggest obstacle to any issue like this. You cant march in and take positive action when your tiptoeing through eggshells!

 

[Midol]

If we are australian skin colour or not then please answer me this:

Why was the task force setup 2 years ago NOT instructed to analyse ALL communities and rank which communities need help, instead, it was instructed to analyse ALL INDIGENOUS communities. That is not treating us all like Australians...

Anyway, I am out. You guys don't understand racism nor do you even understand what sections of this are racist. The proposal is not racist, it is who the proposal is directed at and how they came to the conclusion that is.

 

[Midol]

6ftopythonsgirl.

Spot on! im happy that this thread has kepy you interested during the day.
If a white community was abusing children and had an alcohol problem then this would not of even been on the news.

Thanks for posting.

Errr, that is precisely why it is racism...

 

[Tetras]

Midol you are saying that if a white community was effected in such a way then it would not be worth of being on the news...
So if anything the response to this has been racist against whites. Meh

 

[6ftpythonsgirl]

Yes but the reason that the govournment is doing things for the indigenous community is they were fine before we came along and distroyed there world and made it ours. now they cant seem to get anywhere they are living in limbo they have lost so much of there Culture that they cant live like they used to and they are still to Native at heart to live like White people add Grog to that and you have Drama all over it...

White trash communities are not as communal as the Indigenous people are so you cant sensor it properly plus white kids in bad home have DOC's if DOC's started taking all the Aboriginal kids out of homes that werent safe for them you would all get on your high horse and start ranting about the new stolen generation.

Its Damned if you do and Damned if you dont. I think what Johnny is doing is a good idea but it needs to be for all people.

Grog is a bad thing...

Except on ANZAC Day