Is it still a hobby?

[Rogue5861]

Another link care of the ATO.
http://www.ato.gov.au/General/Tax-evasion-and-crime/About-tax-evasion-and-crime/


Rick

 

[lizardwhisperer]

if people were smart you would register it as a business, run it at a loss and offset keeping your reptiles against your taxable income from your day job...

I'm sure lots of people who are breeding their reptlles do that, and they will claim as business costs the food, hardware, and some of their household electricity, phone, internet , and get depreciation on the major items (enclosure banks, computer, UV meter, reptile shed or room build). And if they make a loss on the reptile business it reduces their total taxable income too.

This is what I did for while from one of my other hobbies , only closed it down because I had NO FREE FAMILY TIME and I had to deal with people to sell stuff to them (yuck !) and there were a lot time wasters and tire kickers who were downright annoying. Made good money but effort was not worth it, and I decided to close it down.

Of cause if they are on pension or other benefit , this is not really available to them so the they will do everything off the books and cash only to avoid Centrelink complications (until they dobbed in or tell the wrong person (probably in a pub or online) and get hauled in front of a magistrate on centrelink fraud charges).

If you are doing the later, or otherwize operating off-the books, and get caught, don't expect any support or sympathy from me.

 

[champagne]

you need a Commercial Wildlife Licence to run a business that breeds and sells reptiles in Queensland but can only breed children’s, spotted and Stimson’s python under that license. so if you cant legally be licensed to breed Morelia's as a business, how can it be a commercial venture that requires you to register a business and pay tax?

 

[saintanger]

The ATO gives the money to Government who in turn spend it on things like roads, hospitals, schools and social security. Putting money back into reptiles may not directly offset your taxable income. If you are lucky enough to pay tax it should be because you are making a profit. If you are making a profit and not paying tax someone else is paying more than they should to prop up the costs of running Australia.

i pay tax from my day job and i don't really see our government spending my hard earnt money on anything other than their trips and hotel accomedation. but i wont get into that.

i made $350 off a few reps i sold last year and just the enclosure to house them cost more than that. so i doubt i have to declare $350. if i was making alot of money i would declare it but not on anything that's a few hundred dollars.

 

[Wing_Nut]

The tax office does not differentiate between legal or illegal businesses as shown by the drug dealer who took the ATO to court and won his case and claimed a bad batch of drugs as a tax deduction. It is not the ATOs responsibility to say if a business is legal or not, only apply the taxation laws. Any issue with licensing is a seperate issue dealt with by a seperate government body.

 

[Wing_Nut]

You didn't actually have an income if your expenses were greater than your cost. At least, that's my understanding. The legislation is in place specifically for people in those kinds of circumstances.

 

[lizardwhisperer]

i pay tax from my day job and i don't really see our government spending my hard earnt money on anything other than their trips and hotel accomedation. but i wont get into that.

i made $350 off a few reps i sold last year and just the enclosure to house them cost more than that. so i doubt i have to declare $350. if i was making alot of money i would declare it but not on anything that's a few hundred dollars.

More than likely if you were born before 1960 , your parents are recieving a pension and other benefits and concessions from the government , if not your parents , then your grandparents will be if they are still around. Just where do think that money comes from ?

Plus there are a load of other things we all need and use that are government (tax) funded.

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

i made $350 off a few reps i sold last year and just the enclosure to house them cost more than that. so i doubt i have to declare $350. if i was making alot of money i would declare it but not on anything that's a few hundred dollars.

In this example, if you were registered as a business, you could claim the costs against your full taxable income. Therefore reducing your tax liability. But only if this were being run as a business. In your case I believe the ATO would see this as a hobby again negating any liability from themselves.

 

[saintanger]

More than likely if you were born before 1960 , your parents are recieving a pension and other benefits and concessions from the government , if not your parents , then your grandparents will be if they are still around. Just where do think that money comes from ?

Plus there are a load of other things we all need and use that are government (tax) funded.

nope all grand parents are dead, haven't seen my father since i was still in school and he worked full time and had a large super account.

my mother lives with my sister who looks after her and gets peanuts of centerlink, she worked her whole life and payed tax. the amount of tax her kids pay is more than 10 times what they pay her.

i'm happy to pay work tax but not hobby tax wen your not making much fair enough if i was making heaps. my local hospital is under staffed and does not have the facilities to deal with certain illnesses so wen my daughter was born to get a simple head scan i had to be moved to another hospital, i had to stay over night some nights with her in special care nursery because they were under staffed. so were is my tax money going?

 

[bk201]

You had to stay over night with your kid?
Tax would have payed for the scanner the hospital etc etc etc

 

[saintanger]

You had to stay over night with your kid?
Tax would have payed for the scanner the hospital etc etc etc

yes the goverment payed for some stuff but i noticed plarks on most stuff saying it had been donated buy companies and other charities. i also donated money myself.

in special care nuresary wen a mother gets discharged there are no beds for us to stay there so if your gonna stay all night you have to sit in a chair next to your sick babies humidity crib the whole night.

 

[andynic07]

You had to stay over night with your kid?
Tax would have payed for the scanner the hospital etc etc etc

Taxes pay for a lot of medical stuff but the health care system is very under funded and there are a lot of procedures that are needed that are not covered by medicare. I needed an ultrasound on my liver the other day and had to pay $180 because it was not covered.

 

[bk201]

yes the goverment payed for some stuff but i noticed plarks on most stuff saying it had been donated buy companies and other charities. i also donated money myself.

I thought donations get declared at tax time

 

[andynic07]

I thought donations get declared at tax time

You have the right to claim receipted donations at tax time as long as you did not receive anything for it. Not sure what your point about that is though?

 

[lizardwhisperer]

Taxes pay for a lot of medical stuff but the health care system is very under funded and there are a lot of procedures that are needed that are not covered by medicare. I needed an ultrasound on my liver the other day and had to pay $180 because it was not covered.

Be thankful you DO NOT live in USA , is very costly to get sick there .
I'd rather have our mixed system and a very good medical / hospital safety net and have our hospital system and PBS than the mess they have.

 

[andynic07]

Be thankful you DO NOT live in USA , is very costly to get sick there .
I'd rather have our mixed system and a very good medical / hospital safety net and have our hospital system and PBS than the mess they have.

Very true but just because we do not the worst doesn't mean we shouldn't try to strive to have the best.

 

[moosenoose]

Personally I believe there is more supply than demand. Your typical carpet python are literally being given away these days. If they're not oddballs like albinos or hybrid patterned critters then they are out there in their droves.

Not everyone wants to keep a reptile, not everyone is able to keep them either (especially with threads like "make my mum let me keep a snake"). Sure, it's a growing hobby, but like the Aussie car industry, we don't have the population to keep up such a huge supply (IMHO).

 

[Merkinball]

Personally I believe there is more supply than demand. Your typical carpet python are literally being given away these days. If they're not oddballs like albinos or hybrid patterned critters then they are out there in their droves.

Not everyone wants to keep a reptile, not everyone is able to keep them either (especially with threads like "make my mum let me keep a snake"). Sure, it's a growing hobby, but like the Aussie car industry, we don't have the population to keep up such a huge supply (IMHO).

These are exactly my thoughts, and the reason i started this thread. This is what i was trying to get at with the hobby vs pet industry line of thought. Going through all the replies, and being a member of this site i see there is a mix of people purely in it for their long held interst and love of reptiles, and those that enjoy larger collections and to make some money out of what they love. Both of these are fine in my opinion, based on the knowledge and evident passion of the people on here. But as with the above quote, there are a lot of "mongrel" animals and plain old common animals that are being bred and advertised for sale. Can we honestly as a whole say that all these animals are being re homed? And if not, does this raise the potential issue of tainting natural populations with hybrid/cross bred or non native animals, just because some people see the opportunity to make a quick $?

 

[andynic07]

I have just witnessed a number of people on a Facebook group in Queensland discussing jag to jag pairings with the knowledge of the fatal gene killing potentially 25% of the clutch on the off chance the will nail one that will live. I think that this certainly fits into this discussion and those actions are not of someone who is partaking in a hobby. They are talking about pairing a number together and didn't seem to care about the poor snakes and to me that stops it being a hobby.

 

[longqi]

I have just witnessed a number of people on a Facebook group in Queensland discussing jag to jag pairings with the knowledge of the fatal gene killing potentially 25% of the clutch on the off chance the will nail one that will live. I think that this certainly fits into this discussion and those actions are not of someone who is partaking in a hobby. They are talking about pairing a number together and didn't seem to care about the poor snakes and to me that stops it being a hobby.

just as with art, writing etc etc in every hobby there are x number of people who push the envelope
sometimes this eventually helps the hobby by creating new opportunities
sometimes it doesnt
so to these people it is still considered a hobby because of their belief in themselves rather than the welfare of the animals in their care