Top end mulga

[waruikazi]

I love it when threads turn up good discussions!

Cheers Pimp!

 

[imported_Varanus]

Thanks Rob, excellent article!

 

[saratoga]

Interesting paper, thanks.

Heard something interesting last year about these snakes. Apparently at certain times of the year they live communally in dens. This came from some aboriginal people via a very good source. Might be worth asking some of the old Bining around the Gunbalanya what they know of this? Unfortunately the area of the den they were talking about has come under the wrath of toads!

 

[waruikazi]

I've been really disapointed with what the old bininj know about most wildlife TBH.

I'll give it a shot but.

 

[Elapidae1]

We also know that this species will not become extinct from the toads because of how wide spread they are throughout the country. The only other snake that has been directly affected by the toads are the death adders and possibly the carpet pythons, although both of them are still surviving.

After reading Snake Pimps paper would you still agree with statement.
Losing a seperate population even if they are the same species as what occurs all over Australia is just as devestating as if it were a seperate species.

 

[waruikazi]

After reading Snake Pimps paper would you still agree with statement.
Losing a seperate population even if they are the same species as what occurs all over Australia is just as devestating as if it were a seperate species.

I haven't read it yet but yes i still stand by what i said completely. The species will not go extinct from the cane toads. The numbers have been decimated in some areas, there are probably extensive local extinctions and there will likely be certain populations lost. But the species, in all likelyhood, will survive in a state that still contributes the way they always have to alot of ecosystems.

Don't get me wrong, i'm pretty devastated at what has happened to them up here. But with their massive range no one can argue that they are going to go extinct from the toads.

 

[AirCooled]

I was told today that it seems the only rep to be able to survive and eat cane toads is the Acrochordus arafurae or the Arafura File Snake

 

[Elapidae1]

Thats precisely it maybe their range isn't as big as first anticipated.
I agree it's unlikely toads will cause them to be extinct but as more work is conducted and scientific methods advance and we are able to recognise species that were previously considered the same, the situation all of a sudden becomes more dire?

I believe that Regardless of whether a species is widespread over the country the extinction of a single population in terms of the effects on that populations eco systems is as devastating as if it were a seperate species.

Keelbacks though not immune have some ability to consume the toads

 

[crail4]

Fresh water crocs have been known to catch them and shake them around in the water to dilute the bufotoxins.

 

[tropicbreeze]

I've been really disapointed with what the old bininj know about most wildlife TBH.

I'll give it a shot but.

Try asking Old Man Jacob (Nayinggul). Most of the others with real knowledge have passed away. But you also have to remember that their knowledge is based within the perspective of their culture. What you want to know is scientific. Knowledge is only valid within its correct context.

When I was living in central Arnhem Land one of the young blokes shot a 2.3 metre King Brown. That was one hell of an impressive snake that I wouldn't want to get on the bad side of. I think I took photos but they would have been slides. They'd be buried somewhere deep cool and dark now.

 

[$NaKe PiMp]

heres some big kingys alive and well.crazy ,beautiful ,snakes

 

[waruikazi]

Try asking Old Man Jacob (Nayinggul). Most of the others with real knowledge have passed away. But you also have to remember that their knowledge is based within the perspective of their culture. What you want to know is scientific. Knowledge is only valid within its correct context.

When I was living in central Arnhem Land one of the young blokes shot a 2.3 metre King Brown. That was one hell of an impressive snake that I wouldn't want to get on the bad side of. I think I took photos but they would have been slides. They'd be buried somewhere deep cool and dark now.

Yeah i have asked old man for a few stories. He told me where to find those giant snakes we get around here but wouldn't give me permission to find them lol. Also got a great stoy out of him about when he got bitten by a death adder (bek) and how the old people would treat bites and that he recons there is another ven out in country that ballandas haven't found yet. He says black with a red tail, i think he means a black whip but i've been made look a fool before by not beleiving the stories.

He taught me how to cut up crocodiles, well 'a' crocodile lol with some of his boys.

But Old Man really is on his last legs hey. He can't walk anymore and is rapidly going down hill, it is going to be a really sad day when we lose him. I think it will hit the fan when he's gone and his boys are fighting over who gets to be the man.

Thats precisely it maybe their range isn't as big as first anticipated.
I agree it's unlikely toads will cause them to be extinct but as more work is conducted and scientific methods advance and we are able to recognise species that were previously considered the same, the situation all of a sudden becomes more dire?

I believe that Regardless of whether a species is widespread over the country the extinction of a single population in terms of the effects on that populations eco systems is as devastating as if it were a seperate species.

Keelbacks though not immune have some ability to consume the toads

I don't disagree. Greg Miles calls it ecological extinction which is essentially the same thing as total extiction except there may be a few animals surviving somewhere but they no longer contribute in a meaningful way to the environment. But if we are talking total extinction, which i was, i think they are probably safe with the environment the way it is now.

I was told today that it seems the only rep to be able to survive and eat cane toads is the Acrochordus arafurae or the Arafura File Snake

That is interesting, where did you hear it?

I'm pretty dubious about the claim though. File snakes aren't known for eating adult amphibians and the native range of bufo toads doesn't overlap with the range of file snakes. I can't see how they would ever have developed an immunity to the bufo toxin.

 

[r3ptilian]

Reptillian, how long ago did you see them? DO you have any pictures? Very jealous that you have seen two![/QUOTE]

Here is a couple of a DOR 1 found at Bird Billabong. I'll keep lookin for more through my albums.

 

[waruikazi]

I don't think that is a mulga reptillian. That looks very Pseudonaja to me...

 

[r3ptilian]

Snake Pimp those are some crackin Mulgas. Do you breed them? cos I'd be interested in a young 1 or 2.

I don't think that is a mulga reptillian. That looks very Pseudonaja to me...

I think your right, my mistake. I was goin through pics of DOR and clicked on pseudonaja instead of psuedechis. Will endeavour to find the psuedechis pics.

 

[Treknotechelaps]

Not good to hear about the declines in snakes resulting from the invasive cane toads up north, didn't think Mulgas were so rare in some areas. Have heard about some biological controls for the ominous toads...one was to genetically manipulate them so all the young they produce that survive to adulthood are only male, so reducing the amount of females in the population will limit breeding succession within the species. Hope they take this into action.

Snake Pimp, those are a couple of impressive Mulgas!

 

[AirCooled]

I heard from a colleague who spends most of his day dealing with leptospiral research, surveillance and diagnosis in the human and veterinary fields.He also does alot with amphibians and I will see what else I can find out for you.

 

[tropicbreeze]

Yeah i have asked old man for a few stories. He told me where to find those giant snakes we get around here but wouldn't give me permission to find them lol. Also got a great stoy out of him about when he got bitten by a death adder (bek) and how the old people would treat bites and that he recons there is another ven out in country that ballandas haven't found yet. He says black with a red tail, i think he means a black whip but i've been made look a fool before by not beleiving the stories. But Old Man really is on his last legs hey. He can't walk anymore and is rapidly going down hill, it is going to be a really sad day when we lose him. I think it will hit the fan when he's gone and his boys are fighting over who gets to be the man.

Was that out at Mekin? There's a snake that turns up in rock art that has a malevolent association. It's depicted banded, I think it's the Western Brown. The Old Man has had problems with his feet for a while now, but although he's outlived a lot of his age group, it's catching up with him now. Alfred is the natural 'next-in-line'. And I reckon that's the way it will go.

Not good to hear about the declines in snakes resulting from the invasive cane toads up north, didn't think Mulgas were so rare in some areas. Have heard about some biological controls for the ominous toads...one was to genetically manipulate them so all the young they produce that survive to adulthood are only male, so reducing the amount of females in the population will limit breeding succession within the species. Hope they take this into action.

Don't hold your breath. They pulled all funding for research on methods of toad control/eradication. The only thing they're prepared to fund now is monitoring the effects of toads on native species. And that particular line of research (male only progeny) was canned as it was "unproven".

 

[waruikazi]

I assume he was referring to Mekinj valley outstation. He just said his outstation but.

When i first came out here Old Man was still walking but no more, he's stuck in his wheel chair. Still enjoying himself but, always down at the club and telling the coppers, rangers and anyone else what for lol. There was a ballanda, who you would no doubt know TB, that somehow had a problem with me along with another one of Jacob's younger sons who thinks he's the man in town and hates white people. They ended up trying to run me out of the community by making up lies and stretching a few truths to breaking point. After the initial agro my boss organised a meeting between me and all the important T/O's of the two clans here. Luckily for me Jacob remembered all of the conversations we'd had and that he had given me the permission i said i had and he told the NLC, police and his sons 'That's my land i gave him permission! Anyone else can **** off.' Lol, so he is still a real force to be recconed with. When he talks, not even the birds interupt him.

Alfred will definately go well as the man, we get along pretty well now after the situation was sorted but some of those younger sons will cause a bit of trouble when Old Man is gone.

 

[GeckPhotographer]

Hey very interesting thread. I took particular interest in the talk of daughterless toad technology. This has in fact been proven as a concept that male toads can be breed/altered so that all progeny they produce and their progeny produce are male. The unproven part is just how implementing this would be possible in curving toads numbers, for instance it might be found needed that billions of toads be released all over to have any effect. Lots of people listen to this and immediately go on the defensive that we cannot release toads. I think it is a very possible approach that should be researched more. It is still being researched for Carp but was indeed stopped for toads as most research has. The problem with this is to get funding to research say a toads impact on animal A, one must first be able to provide evidence that toads will impact animal A, for which they need funding to research to find out.