Woma's still restricted for more then 2?

Discussion in 'Australian Snakes' started by trogdor1988, Jun 8, 2011.

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  1. trogdor1988

    trogdor1988 Well-Known Member

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    Hi all, now im getting a bit confused here, im getting all different conflicting opinions as too whats right and wrong here. Some people tell me, that on a rec permit you can only keep 2 woma's, yet some are saying they got changed and are now on rec permits. Im dead sure i read this somewhere too. Now ive kept woma's for a few years now, and am now wondering if this means i can breed them or not, without getting into crap. I rang the epa and asked, they also said it was restricted, but hell.. they never seem to know what they are doing. So is there anyone who has 100% definitive answers for this, are you seriously not allowed more then 2 on rec permits in qld?

    Cheers guys
     
  2. Carnelian

    Carnelian Well-Known Member

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    As far as I'm aware they are on a recreational permit but have restrictions on them. Same applies to GTPs, you can either have 2 womas, 2 GTP or 1 of each.

    This was the info I got in December last yr when inquiring for when our woma arrived so it should still be the same unless it changed recently.
     
  3. trogdor1988

    trogdor1988 Well-Known Member

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    Thats really a bit dumb, i mean.. they are a common species within the hobby now. Why should they still be restricted to 2 per person.
     
  4. Carnelian

    Carnelian Well-Known Member

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    Particularly when they are so easy to care for, I think QLD EPA just haven't caught up yet.

    I was also told it is like this because they are listed as rare in QLD.
     
  5. trogdor1988

    trogdor1988 Well-Known Member

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    I understand that, but its not like we are taking them from the wild. They are captive bred, which is why i find it to be such an idiotic law. They can keep woma's to 2 per person, yet everyone is starting to breed jag pythons which are technically illegal as they are hybrids, even if it is just subspecies of the same family. I wonder then if this means i cant breed them, even if i sell all the young. As technically this would mean id have owned the young, which if you look at it would also be illegal as id have more then 2 until i sold them all.
     
  6. Ozzie Python

    Ozzie Python Very Well-Known Member

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    the restricted pythons (woma and gtp) are based on wild populations in qld, and are therefore classed as restricted. Qld Epa (DERM) are not worried about populations outside of qld or numbers in captivity.

    you can change your licence easily and pay the the additional amount and keep as many as you want.
     
  7. trogdor1988

    trogdor1988 Well-Known Member

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    its classed as specialised or something isnt it? someone told me long ago that you can get it changed too specialised for no extra cost or something?
     
  8. Mayo

    Mayo Very Well-Known Member

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    Just to clarify that a little you may only keep 2 restricted animals total, on a QLD rec licence.

    And I believe it is around $150 to upgrade you licence, and you will need to complete a course or get 3 letters from registered keepers that hold the licence
     
  9. trogdor1988

    trogdor1988 Well-Known Member

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    yeah i got that, lol cheers.

    Oh wait, so you actually need a proper restricted permit. Ehh.. Ive got the references, was planning too go for my restricted permit anyway.. wouldnt mind some adders.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2011
  10. -Katana-

    -Katana- Well-Known Member

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    There has been threads that I myself have contributed to.
    Here is the drum...

    You apply for an amendment to your rec license with an explanation as to why you want to keep more than 2 restricted animals.
    Edit: Note in that explanation that you are wanting to keep restricted animals other than vens. this precludes you from having to do courses or submitting references.
    Pay an additional $180 .approx.
    DERM will contact you to make a time to inspect the premises that the animals will be kept (to ensure that you are not a place of business).

    The reasons are that womas are listed as endangered here in Queensland and thus are automatically included on the restricted list of herps. by default.
    The reality of the vast numbers of womas within the herp hobby as opposed to numbers in the wild hasn't really been translated into a more reasoned approach towards keeping more than 2 of them for recreational keepers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2011
  11. trogdor1988

    trogdor1988 Well-Known Member

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    yeah i know how it works for getting my restricted permit, ive been planning too get it for awhile. I just thought woma's got put onto rec permits, ive been told by a few people they had been.

    ohhh i see, so then if i get the restricted permit for snakes other then vens, then dont have to do courses, or get references what do i have too do later on if i want too get vens?
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2011
  12. Mayo

    Mayo Very Well-Known Member

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    The course or the letters for restricted. Be aware that with letters it is an EPA discretion to accept them. The do try to push everyone to do the course and pay the cash these days


    Not sure you can get the extension any more for anything other that natural increase.
     
  13. trogdor1988

    trogdor1988 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah they told me they occasionaly give the license without courses, but sometimes they want the courses done too. I got a few snakecatcher mates, but some havent had the permit long enough too count for a reference. Ill see what happens, see if i can spare the cash for the course, atleast i got a better shot at getting the permit then.
     
  14. jham66

    jham66 Well-Known Member

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    So..... If you are allowed to keep two Woma or Two GTP and you breed your pair of same, what happens when you end up with 16 hatchy Woma or GTP?

    Assuming the intention of the breeding was to sell them, not to keep the offspring, is there a time frame to move them on? or are you not allowed to breed the pair??
     
  15. Russ2

    Russ2 Not so new Member

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    as per previous posts if you only have a QLD rec license then your only allowed to have 2 restricted animals therefor by the letter of the law you should not be breeding them whether for keeps or for the intent to sell. Just spent the dollars and upgrade your license.

    Cheers
     
  16. jham66

    jham66 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Russ2, though, I still find that difficult to understand..... by the letter of the law, I am only allowed to keep two registered dogs... but I can breed those dogs as long as I sell or give those puppies away within a reasonable time frame.

    Is your information from logical thinking or from DERM legislation?
     
  17. Russ2

    Russ2 Not so new Member

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    Don't know if it is legislation but this is what I was told a few years back by DERM.
    If your 2 restricted animals were to breed "by accident", say you had a cage malfunction and had to house them together for a short time then they may allow you to pass on the offspring, within a limited time frame.
    But if DERM were to pay you a visit and find them matched for breeding or if your enclosures regularly malfunctioned during matting season ie. more than once then it would be looked upon very dimly.
    I don't believe there is any hard and fast rule more that each case is is judged on it's individual merits.

    I don't necessarily agree or understand there line of thinking but after 2 days on the phone with DERM I just paid the money to keep unlimited Woma's and GTP.

    Sorry if this doesn't help but its just the way it is.
     
  18. jham66

    jham66 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, thanks.

    Doesn't seem odd that they would restrict the number you could keep because of their status in the wild and then not allow you to increase the captive population? which is the reason I asked if it was by logical reasoning or DERM regulation.... often not one and the same..
     
  19. trogdor1988

    trogdor1988 Well-Known Member

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  20. Mayo

    Mayo Very Well-Known Member

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    Technically you are not allowed to breed them. That aside you can ask for a letter stating it was an accident and they may at there discretion grant you a letter allowing you to sell the animals.
     
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