change in behaviour - hiding for 2+ days?

[Raaahbin]

Hi folks,

Quick question to those more experienced with such things. We have a new stimmie hatchling - almost a couple of months old now, although we've only had him for just under two weeks. He's a lovely little guy, and has been pretty easy going since we got him. For the first couple of days after he arrived we left him completely alone, then because his original enclosure had a weird plasticky smell (see another thread here) we made up a new click clack for him, so we handled him in order to move him. That seemed to go really well - we didn't pick him up or anything, just waited for his curiosity to do the job. The next night we handled him a little too, then fed him (which was no problem at all) and left him alone for a couple more days.

After that, we've handled him a bit each night up until two nights ago. Each time we've done the same thing - just offered a hand in his enclosure, and waited for him to come to us. Even when we haven't been in the process of handling him, during the night we'll regularly find that he's moved from one place to another, or we'll see him basking on the tiles or hiding in the toilet roll that sits on the tiles. Two nights ago (one night before we'd normally feed him), we went to handle him just as before, and this time he barely poked his head out of his hide rock, then went back in and didn't reappear. Last night, same thing only he didn't even poke his head out. Concerned at the lack of response (and the fact that we hadn't seen him out and about at all), I gently stroked the bit of his side that was nearest the opening of the hide rock, and he moved, but just to move a little further into the hide rock. Once again this morning I've got up early (well before the sun is up), and he's still in the hide rock.

The last time he was handled, a friend was having a bit of a hold of him and dropped him (probably about a metre) onto the wooden floor, but I gently picked him up immediately and he didn't seem to be behaving any differently (he didn't even seem overly perturbed by the fall), so we didn't think there was any likelihood of injury, but... now (like any first time parents) we're getting very worried.

What are your suggestions? He was so "friendly" and easy going for the first week or so, this complete hiding-and-not-coming-out for days is worrying us, but we don't want to disturb him if he just needs some non-stop quiet time. Could he be shedding? Could he be sick? At what point do we do something more, like taking the hide rock off him (which we know will get him perturbed and defensive) or taking him to a vet?

The temperature gradient is good, the enclosure has been regularly cleaned, everyone's washed hands carefully before handling, he's fed easily the one time we fed him... everything seems fine, except his 2+ day disappearance.

Would appreciate any input from those who've seen it before!

 

[JAS101]

OK first off id never let just anyone handle my snakes [incase of them being dropped]
describe the snake , has it dull/lost the shine off its scales? are the eyes clear . do u know when it last shed [ maybe contact who ever u brought it off]

 

[Contagion]

You're worrying too much.
He's hiding because he feels the need to, probably because he's coming up to a shed.
Your snake won't be active all the time.
As for dropping him, if his movements seem normal and he continues to eat then it shouldn't be a concern. Just try not to let it happen often.
Offer food as normal, if he doesn't take it don't freak out. Just leave him be, offer food once a week and don't handle him until he's eating, unless neccesary for cleaning or whatever.

 

[Choco]

First 2 points pretty well sum it up. Could just be shedding and/or stressed from all the new things in his new environment, especially if he hasn't been handled much before you got him. Keep an eye on his eyes and color. If he is shedding he will dull/look dirty and his eyes will look milky. If it's just the start of a shed it may be a couple more days before you notice this. ZOOJAS questions are a good starting point if you can answer those.

If you look at it from his point of view he would've spent the first month or so by himself in his own safe (a far as he is concerned) little world. To then get taken out of it and thrown (so to speak) into a completely different environment (his new enclosure) where he has to adjust and will need time to feel safe again. Add to that being taken out regularly to be handled all adds up to quite a lot of stress for such a young small thing where everything is so much bigger and potentially a threat to him.
While he may have seemed fine while out he may have still been getting stressed. Remember from his point of view, he sees something (your hand) in his world so he comes out to investigate, each time being taken out into a bigger scarier world. The drop might then have just been enough for him to decide I don't like this anymore so I'll just stay put.

Hope that helps and all is OK for the little fella.

 

[Raaahbin]

Thanks all for your helpful replies - fortunately that's mostly what we figured, so we've just left him to hide for now. Will offer food again tonight or tomorrow, and otherwise leave him be. Dropping will definitely NOT be a regular occurrence, and we won't try handling him again until we see normal activity return (and not for a couple of days if he takes food when offered). Couldn't answer the questions about pre-shedding appearance at the moment (when he was last out, eye scales showed no signs of cloudiness, but skin was duller) - didn't want to disturb him to find out. Thanks!

 

[Raaahbin]

We suspect it might be a shed coming up. No sign of cloudy/blue eye scales, but we offered a feed last night and he refused it - in the process, he came out, had a big drink, slithered around perfectly normally, sniffed at the mouse but never seemed seriously like he was going to eat it, eventually heading back into the hide rock. Left the mouse overnight in case he changed his mind, but threw it out this morning.

His previous (and only) shed was on 15 December, 12 days after he hatched... so I guess he's probably about due for one. This is also his first food refusal since he started eating, so it all seems to line up.

 

[Jarden]

Yep just leave him alone for a couple of days even give his tub a light mist always seems to help my snakes shed nicely once he has shed offer him food and he should take it and dropping 1 meter lol not very good hes a small snake that will be like you falling off a 50 meter cliff onto a wooden floor try not to let it happen again

 

[whcasual79]

more than likely your lil man is coming up for a shed ... personally i would leave him be and not feed him till after he sheds ... my childreni's eyes hardly ever went cloudy but i always knew he was up for a shed as his skin went dull and greyish ...

i been lucky enough to see him shed nearly everytime, it's an awesome process

keep us posted on how he goes

 

[Bax155]

Definatly shed time!!

 

[Aslan]

...sounds like a shed to me - I won't see my Olive for a week when he's coming into a shed...

 

[bstar]

Thanks all! (the other concerned parent here) I certainly knew all the theory about snakes withdrawing when about to shed, but the lack of blue eyes made me miss it as an explanation. We'll see what he does over the next week, I guess - no shed yet.

It's about 11 days since he last ate - should I try offering him food tonight and see if he takes it, or not? The Mike Swan book says they should not eat during the shedding process, so I'm wary of offering it if eating will do more harm than good, but he's so small! Not much in the way of stored reserves.

The fall certainly stressed me out, so I imagine Penfold didn't like it all that much either - the only comfort I can take from it is that he only weighs 16g so far, so he'll have hit the floor with far less force than we would, falling from the same height!

 

[TWENTY B]

11 days without a feed will not worry it in the slightest. it can go months without anything if needed.
if you think it's going to shed, just leave it alone
. and once it has shed, give it another 2 days, then offer a feed

 

[bstar]

Yeah, he shed. *feels slightly silly* Ah well, we know what to expect next time.

The shed skin is torn where his tail would have been, so I'll have a quick look at him tonight to make sure the tail tip has come off. I'll have to disturb him slightly anyway, as along with the shed, he's done the world's biggest turd. :|

 

[JAS101]

Yeah, he shed. *feels slightly silly* Ah well, we know what to expect next time.

The shed skin is torn where his tail would have been, so I'll have a quick look at him tonight to make sure the tail tip has come off. I'll have to disturb him slightly anyway, as along with the shed, he's done the world's biggest turd. :|

good new , but i wouldnt be waiting to see if the tail tip has came off . id be doing now .

 

[bstar]

good new , but i wouldnt be waiting to see if the tail tip has came off . id be doing now .

Done, cheers! Took the opportunity to change out the substrate, and there was another big roll of skin in there, so he'd just done it in three pieces - he was all shiny and beautiful and fully shed, no retained bits.

He's back to his usual self, too! Whilst I cleaned the click clack one-handed, he happily curled round my other hand and explored a bit, checked out my daughter, tasted the air... was nice to see. Now we'll leave him alone for a couple of days, then offer him a feed.

It's funny to see his colours change a little with the shed! He's a SR wheatbelt, and was a sort of a brassy colour with black spots. Seeing him in daylight after this shed, his spots are now dark coffee brown, and the rest of him is light brown/gold. Very pretty!

 

[JAS101]

its allways good to see how good the snakes look [ shine wise after a shed]
one of my woma hatchlings is near on shed [ got the milky eyes , and dull scales] cant wait to see what she looks like after [ first shed with her with me ]

 

[Raaahbin]

As bstar posted - and as everyone here had suggested - it was a skin shed, which he did without problems a week ago. As recommended here, we left him for a few days, then attempted to feed him (he's fed once before since he arrived, so we just tried the same thing this time)... but despite being over two weeks since his last feed, he showed no interest at all in the velvet mouse we offered him (same as the last food he took, prepared exactly the same way). A little concerned at this, we wondered whether either (a) it might be too big for him (the previous one he took was smaller), or (b) it might have taken on a distracting smell from the freezer (we'd just kept it in the newspaper it came wrapped in from the pet shop). We even tried braining the mouse, and also (when he showed no interest) left the mouse on the basking tile overnight... but it was still there in the morning, so we threw it out.

Today I got a couple of new pinkies and a velvet mouse from the pet shop, put them in a new air-tight container in the freezer, and tonight when he was up and awake and active, we tried feeding him again (this time with a pinky). But... still no dice. He sniffed it in passing, but was far more keen to get out and about than to bother with eating. Even when we left the mouse in the enclosure and clicked the lid back on (thereby removing the option of an excursion), he still showed no interest in eating. It's now almost three weeks since he last ate, and while I know they can go a pretty long time without eating, it still seems odd that he shows so little interest in eating given the opportunity to feed. At the end of this week, we're going to be away for a week, which means if we haven't convinced him to eat before we leave it will have been 5 weeks since his last feed by the time we get back. Is that a dangerously long time for a 2 month old hatchling to go without eating? Prior to the shed, he'd fed about once a week, except after the move (our one successful feed) when it had been almost 2 weeks.

Again, any suggestions would be welcome!

 

[bstar]

Update: We left the pinkie in the click-clack overnight and it's gone this morning.

Goddamn it, I swear; newborn baby humans are less worrisome and stressful.