copperhead Vs RBB

[H.bitorquatus]

comment deleted, after reading below comment

 

[percey39]

Farma just curious would you say you could identify any snake you caught a glimps of out bush with 100% certainty. hmmmm

 

[Guest]

Farma just curious would you say you could identify any snake you caught a glimps of out bush with 100% certainty. hmmmm

Yes percy or I dont pick it up

 

[snake_boy]

you can flame away and come up with whatever excuse you want! for the record I catch snakes and its not the legal issues that bother me IMO attempting to catch a venomous snake that you cant properly identify is just plain stupidity

that was the point I was making

i agree that you should be able to identify the animal before attempting to do anything with it. my posts were not aimed at you.

 

[reptilerob]

IMO attempting to catch a venomous snake that you cant properly identify is just plain stupidity

that was the point I was making

I agree to a certain degree, but he knew it was either a RBBS or a copperhead. Is there a different technique used to handle a RBBS to a copperhead, i really wouldnt know??
I wont pick any up because im too scared of getting bitten!! (smart on my behalf) however if i am ever fortunate enough to come across a python i want to pick it up for a feel. It will be educational for me to see how a wild one handles as opposed to our domestic python.
I certainly see your point though.

On another note, reptileguys opening line was "that i didn't tail due to the high risk of being tagged" Sounds to me like he's coming under fire for something he didnt even do..........

 

[percey39]

Thats a fair call, but i think if you have a sound understanding of venomous snakes you have a fair idea of what your in for. When on a call out, you are not always 100% sure what you are catching, untill you have it out and on the hook.

 

[Guest]

I agree to a certain degree, but he knew it was either a RBBS or a copperhead. Is there a different technique used to handle a RBBS to a copperhead, i really wouldnt know??
I wont pick any up because im too scared of getting bitten!! (smart on my behalf) however if i am ever fortunate enough to come across a python i want to pick it up for a feel. It will be educational for me to see how a wild one handles as opposed to our domestic python.
I certainly see your point though.

On another note, reptileguys opening line was "that i didn't tail due to the high risk of being tagged" Sounds to me like he's coming under fire for something he didnt even do..........

My first comment on this thread wasn't directed at reptileguy personally but just my opinion directed at everybody whether you do it or not

to answer your question yes every species of snake has a diferent defence and attack posture a small example a rbbs will flatten its neck and and inhibit alot of its movement in doing so, where as a brownsnake will stand up coiled to strike and move forward while in this position!(with remarkable speed)! even if only to a slight degree every species is different

cheers

 

[Guest]

By the way Reptilerob those are some damn nice copperheads

 

[-Matt-]

I'm gunna jump on this thread now and throw in my opinion, and for the record this isn't aimed at anyone. NO snake should be touched unless you can 110% identify it...yes you may say I can identify that it's an elapid but like what has already been mentioned some elapids are a lot more predictable than others. Black snakes are a lot more predictable and not as quick as the brown and taipan species! That's not to say though that they can't also surprise you and don't have the potential to turn around on themselves very quickly.

Also on the topic of the protection agencies not enforcing the 'no touch' rule - I personally know a couple of members of this site that have copped the sharp end of the EPA stick purely for moving a reptile off the road or saving it from the shovel, even picking up a rare dead snake off the road! Some of these actions costing the perpetrators thousands of dollars! Yet they don't enforce the illegal killing of snakes? That confuses the hell out of me! But you can't say that these agencies don't give a **** about what we are doing and it may be rare but they can come down hard when it suits them.

 

[ReptilianGuy]

My first comment on this thread wasn't directed at reptileguy personally but just my opinion directed at everybody whether you do it or not

to answer your question yes every species of snake has a diferent defence and attack posture a small example a rbbs will flatten its neck and and inhibit alot of its movement in doing so, where as a brownsnake will stand up coiled to strike and move forward while in this position!(with remarkable speed)! even if only to a slight degree every species is different

cheers

again , also again farma this thread was from a year ago. now a little run down.... i'm from north queensland, moved down here in december 08 and lived up there my entire life. i've handled my fair share of Pythons, colubrids, taipans, browns and mulga's, even been tagged by a northern death adder (purely accidental, mixed with a bit of over confidence "lesson learnt") many a pythons inc. scrubbies and brown trees... now i put this up a YEAR ago as i have never seen them in the wild DOWN here and the few red bellies up north that i've seen in the wild are pink bellied to absent in colour almost along the flanks and a dark grey. Now i'm well aware of their behaviour and their defences are almost very similar with the flattening out hissing and headbutting. but to actually see these in the wild down here was a learning curve and i posted this thread to try put an answer to my doubt. but a was well aware of what i was up for when i was looking to tail it wich was ended up being impracticle considering the shrubbery it was rushing away through thus me leaving it go to save it from stressing from being followed also it possed to much risk of myself being tagged if i had tried, it also was off the road so that was good enough for me along with the encounter.
it's called herping and it's all about learning and there is heaps of that available for all.... without being bit/ tagged...

so you can say what you like cos i was well aware of what was goin on and knew what to expect even with the little what was i looking at out of the 2 options, as from what i've come across in the wild over this year i can't say that thier defence displays don't differ and a copperhead is far more approachable were a red belly tends to be quite shy also we only have 6 species of elapids in the central gippsland to southern gippsland area so i had heaps to choose from, Eastern brown, Tiger Snake, Copperhead, Red belly black and White lipped snake being most common that i see..... one i haven't seen yet is the small eyed snake.

also awesome picks there rob, very nice finds

 

[dragon170]

This little guy confused a few people when I posted him about 18 months ago and I have definitely seen them darker again lol

 

[ReptilianGuy]

another thing i can also point out is that i've seen taipans on display at a herp society meet, and guess how many of the experienced herpers called them eastern browns???
answer, Several. no matter how experienced we are we can and do make simple mistakes at times...
it's something that the owner pointed out at the end as there was no signage...

 

[varanid_mike]

which meet was that?

 

[moosenoose]

Also on the topic of the protection agencies not enforcing the 'no touch' rule - I personally know a couple of members of this site that have copped the sharp end of the EPA stick purely for moving a reptile off the road or saving it from the shovel, even picking up a rare dead snake off the road! Some of these actions costing the perpetrators thousands of dollars! Yet they don't enforce the illegal killing of snakes? That confuses the hell out of me! But you can't say that these agencies don't give a **** about what we are doing and it may be rare but they can come down hard when it suits them.

Oh no, they DO CARE, and that's because hobbyists are EASY MONEY MAKING TARGETS! Your everyday person out there killing snakes only have to say they were fearful of the creature and there'll not be another question on the matter. Simply put, they are protected by their own ignorance, whereas we actually know something about reptiles and the law and line ourselves up for litagation. Double standards IMHO

 

[-Matt-]

Oh no, they DO CARE, and that's because hobbyists are EASY MONEY MAKING TARGETS! Your everyday person out there killing snakes only have to say they were fearful of the creature and there'll not be another question on the matter. Simply put, they are protected by their own ignorance, whereas we actually know something about reptiles and the law and line ourselves up for litagation. Double standards IMHO

I'm not disagreeing with you at all, and what you have just written is spot on! It's just ridiculous, you can't enforce one and not the other but this is exactly what they do!

On the taipan thing, so many 'knowledgable' herpers say they have come across taipans and handled them while out herping and can differentiate between a coastal tai and an eastern brown. I'm just curious as to why we NEVER see pictures of wild coastal taipans (only eastern browns) in herping threads when they seem to be so common to find?

 

[saratoga]

another thing i can also point out is that i've seen taipans on display at a herp society meet, and guess how many of the experienced herpers called them eastern browns???.

That's because they weren't experienced herpers!.....there are too many people around saying they know things definatively when they dont!

It's ok to admit you don't know, are not sure, or are only guessing, but you should always qualify your statement by saying so, so that you don't mislead others. Also by giving your reasons as to why you think its a XXX you will help others and allow more experienced members to point you in the right direction if you are wrong

[/URL]
This little guy confused a few people when I posted him about 18 months ago and I have definitely seen them darker again lol

Dull dorsal colour, enlarged lateral scales and general form of this snake...there should be no confusion....It's very straight forward.

It's great that you had a good day mate but why are you trying to catch wild snakes? Just take a picture and let them on their way.

Seems to be a lot of double standards on here......give the guy a break....was probably just doing what you were here.......

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/field-herping-and-reptile-studies-5373/arnhem-land-snakes-133048

I'm with Moosenoose on this, and couldn't care less whether people go out catching snakes, licenced or not. I've caught, played with, and photographed snakes all my life without a permit. Only now am I looking into getting a relocators permit.

Should I get that permit it doesn't mean I will be suddenly be better at ID, snakehandling or anything else....it will only mean I am licenced legally to relocate snakes and therefore can't be hassled by people for not being legal.

Getting that licence is just like a drivers licence......it means I will have attained a minimum standard and as we all know that can be pretty atrocious. It wont make me a better driver, it doesn't mean I'll stay within the law and it is no reflection on my attitude to others on the road.

It's the same with wildlife permits.

I will always judge people on how they actually treat the animals, and their conservation ethics, rather than on what qualifications or licences they hold!

 

[waruikazi]

Seems to be a lot of double standards on here......give the guy a break....was probably just doing what you were here.......

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/field-herping-and-reptile-studies-5373/arnhem-land-snakes-133048

Yeah i can see how you think there's a double std. But there is a couple of differences. That snake was curled up on the road where it could be injured or killed. I have T/O, local council and NLC ranger backing. That is a keelback, not a snake that can kill. And fourthly i made that post over a year ago, i really don't care what people do anymore... well that's not true, i do care. I don't like anything that encourages people to try catching elapids without the appropriate skills. I could tell you why i feel that way but that would take too long.

I do care but not that much anymore.

 

[H.bitorquatus]

if you are going to pick up a snake regardless of whether its deadly or not, does it really matter if you can't ID it straight away? It doesn't matter if you are not 100% sure of ID, just treat it as a deadly snake, as soon as you get a good look you should be able to get an ID. Often when I find snakes, they start to escape straight away, rather then risk missing out on a photo I just grab them :lol:

Photo first, Safety second!

 

[reptilerob]

Hey Thanks for the comments on my photos. Would you believe it, i was out herping today, wasnt expecting to see too much because it was only about 15 degrees where i was, (base of mt bogong) and guess what i stumbled across, the most amazing, placid, friendly copperhead i have ever seen!!!
We went to mt beauty to see my mother inlaw for her birthday, so i decided to go for a walk. It was the best decision i have made for a long time!!! I will post a photo of it later.

 

[reptilerob]

Here is the highland copperhead that i was lucky enough to see today, and what a sensational speciman it was, one of the best. It was only about 3 feet long, maybe even slightly less, what a ripper. I watched it for around 10 minutes as it hunted, then looked back at me, then hunted again etc... before i decided to leave him alone. I didnt pick it up, i never have picked up a venomous snake simply because i have had no training!!!!
And just as a comparison, i have also uploaded a head shot of a RBBS that i took while fishing about a month ago.