Former Prime Minister

[horsesrule]

Iraq is a sham,

And the Iraqi people were better off under Saddam. (Even though i personally did not like him)

I believe this was all about oil and anyone who doesnt is either naive or stupid.

Further to that the whole UN thing was just an excuse, look at Rwanda the UN knew it was happening i never see the good old USA jumping up saying lets go there and save millions of people from being slaughtered, Why ? NO MONEY THERE TO BE MADE! NO OIL.

Howard is no doubt a criminal and i believe the worst PM this country has ever had. History will decide this now.

Forensick has made some good points on the economy, it seems people were and still are brainwashed by Howard over interest rates and the economy. (Anyone who has studied economics understand there is more to an economy than interest rates) Forensick has rightly pointed this out.

Also economists are divided on free market (something Howard promoted and has got us where we are) Free market does NOT mean good economy.

 

[moosenoose]

Iraq is a sham,

And the Iraqi people were better off under Saddam. (Even though i personally did not like him)

I believe this was all about oil and anyone who doesnt is either naive or stupid.

Further to that the whole UN thing was just an excuse, look at Rwanda the UN knew it was happening i never see the good old USA jumping up saying lets go there and save millions of people from being slaughtered, Why ? NO MONEY THERE TO BE MADE! NO OIL.

Howard is no doubt a criminal and i believe the worst PM this country has ever had. History will decide this now.

Forensick has made some good points on the economy, it seems people were and still are brainwashed by Howard over interest rates and the economy. (Anyone who has studied economics understand there is more to an economy than interest rates) Forensick has rightly pointed this out.

Also economists are divided on free market (something Howard promoted and has got us where we are) Free market does NOT mean good economy.

:lol: good one!

 

[moosenoose]

ps: have a little read, get off your leftist low-horse, and educate yourself

http://www.inthenationalinterest.com/Articles/Vol2Issue9/vol2issue9kohlhaas.html

 

[horsesrule]

Resort to insults rather than facts another show of pure intelligence.

I think you been watching to much fox news.

 

[moosenoose]

I displayed the facts; one was a picture, and the other was a link. I can't help it if you chose not to read the link

 

[horsesrule]

The fist sentance on that link sums up the entire link.

American propaganda!

"Nothing demonstrates the political and moral bankruptcy of the American liberal left "





It is you who is the sheep as you believe all there lies and propaganda.

 

[Forensick]

Not entirely senseless IMO. We're very good at doing nothing usually!

I get tired of hearing the same senseless rot about a war for oil. Hussein made his own bed when he refused UN weapons inspectors the access that was drawn up after the first Iraqi conflict.

But, in hindsight, I think the Iraqi people were left in safer hands under an abusive, murderous dictatorship! Quite clearly Iraq is finding it hard coming to grips with their new-found freedom. If they had prospered under a new government without the tribal violence that keeps erupting over there, we’d ALL have had no further involvement other than removing Hussein and his goon-squad!

There is nothing senseless about attacking a country when the leader of such murders hundreds of thousands of people, torments their neighbours with chemical weapons and then torments a gutless UN with threats of already having WMD’s in their possession! I can’t stand tools who think the US marched in simply because they were experiencing an oil shortage! Bring out all the leftist propaganda and bull#$#@ that flows all over the internet, but common sense suggests quite clearly it wasn’t the basis of this latest attack.

And no, I’m not suggesting for one moment the US has always been an untouchable angel with their foreign policies and the like.



Tell that to the ones who lost their homes and jobs due to Hawke & Keating fabulous policies

tell that to people who lost homes under howards last term!


but i will mostly agree with you on iraq.
i was and am opposed to the war.
the opposition however is because of the sham reasons.... not once until after the wmd stuff vanished was it to liberate iraqis.
and had we gone in for those reasons one can only assume our method of occupation would have been better,
had we gone in for those reasons i would have approved.

-incidently, kim beasley in ALP caucus was pushing for the invasion of iraw for those reasons

(which is funny because had kim won against howard the first time, we probably still would have ended up in iraq, and the libs would have been sitting there opposing it..... isn't 2 part politics stupid)

 

[Forensick]

Iraq is a sham,

And the Iraqi people were better off under Saddam. (Even though i personally did not like him)

I believe this was all about oil and anyone who doesnt is either naive or stupid.

Further to that the whole UN thing was just an excuse, look at Rwanda the UN knew it was happening i never see the good old USA jumping up saying lets go there and save millions of people from being slaughtered, Why ? NO MONEY THERE TO BE MADE! NO OIL.

Well.... depends on how you look at it really.
the amount of children dying in iraw pre war was huge, mostly because of preventable disease and starvation.
however that is because of the embargo the US placed on iraq in violation of UN treaties.

Iraqis are definately not better off under saddam.
however it would be nice if they were "liberated" by americans that went in there to help them, not themselves.
i HAVE to believe that our "approach" would have been better if we truly went in to help these people (less murders by troops, abu gr(?) -prison- etc)

 

[moosenoose]

I don't believe war is the answer either, but I get tired of hearing the same sheep bleating response that it was war purely for oil.

Most of these bleeding hearts have no clear idea of what they’d be in for in some of these countries if they came in and expressed some of the free thinking ideals they have been blessed with, simply because we live in free and humane society. But my guess is they’d be beheaded in first 10 minutes of opening their mouths!

Perhaps we can all look at war as a primitive solution, and in a civilized world where a government won’t starve their own people to make ends meet; perhaps sanctions could well be the answer. But when you don’t have that luxury, force is "sadly" your next option. There seems to be two classes of people in Iraq, the ones right up the top (the really rich) feeding off the ones right down the bottom (the really poor!). By sanctioning Iraq the only ones being hurt would have been the ones already severely struggling. So what do you do?? Nothing! You moan and sook about an illegal war and give a bunch of reasons as to why the US never went in to rescue any other country in turmoil! Fair dinkum it’s yawnable!

We can’t be happy for a population of people who have never experienced freedom or democracy......no! We want them back under a despot regime that was happy murdering, raping and torturing people. Then again, perhaps it's just another propaganda issue??

 

[horsesrule]

Because one disagrees with how someone runs another country does not give them the right to invade it.

No one is going to say Saddam was good but neither is Bush.

There were other factors that influenced the Iraq war and oil is one of them.

This war has simply made these fantatics more angry and more determined to attack us.

And it has made a lot of money for some people in the oil and defence contract sector.