Fuscus or Mackloti?

[saximus]

Ok so I asked this is the Water thread but didn't get much of a response.
Does anyone know what the deal is with the scientific name for Water Pythons? I've seen them advertised in the for sale section as Liasis Fuscus and Liasis Mackloti. I've also seen two different DECC species lists where one said one name and the other said the. According to Wikipedia Mackloti is a white lipped python and Fuscus is a water python.
So basically does anyone know what they are officially called now and the reason for the different names in different places?

 

[thals]

I think it's very well explained on the RDU site in this link under the taxonomic notes

Water python (Liasis mackloti) at the Australian Reptile Online Database | ReptilesDownUnder.com

 

[Pythoninfinite]

That's fuscus & mackloti by the way... Genus Liasis has a capital, species and subspecies ALWAYS is lower case.

Jamie

 

[NickM]

They are fuscus[/I,] macklotti refers to Indonesian animals from the islands of Timor, Roti and Semau. Honestly how anyone ever though that the Australian water pythons and the Indonesian animals were the same thing is beyond comprehension. I keep both macklotti and QLD fuscus and they are very different snakes.

Additionally there are two distinct forms of fuscus. The animals in QLD are genetically very distinct from the animals in NT. Water pythons also exist in southern New Guinea. The New Guinea fuscus are genatically the same as specimens from QLD. The NT fuscus are gentically more similar to the Indonesian macklotti than to the fuscus in QLD!

The likely eventual result of all this is that fuscus will be partitioned into two taxons.

Nick

 

[-Peter]

exert from

[FONT=&quot]Remarks: [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Kluge (1993) synonymized [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Liasis[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]fuscus[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Peters, 1873 with [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Liasis[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]mackloti[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Duméril & Bibron, 1844. However, Rawlings et al. (2004) demonstrated that specimens from Queensland (the type locality of this taxon), the Torres Strait islands (Saibai), and New Guinea form a well-supported clade, which is considered the sister group to the clade comprising the Northern Territory and Indonesian populations. Also see comments on [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Katrinus[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. Henderson and Powell (2007) did not recognize any subspecies within [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Liasis[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]fuscus[/FONT][FONT=&quot], a position followed herein. Some authors refer to this taxon as [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Liasis[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]mackloti[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Duméril & Bibron (e.g., Hay 2007).
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Quoted from pp.25, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Zookeys 66: 29–80, doi: 10.3897/zookeys.66.683[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Annotated checklist of the recent and extinct pythons (Serpentes, Pythonidae), with notes on nomenclature, taxonomy, and distribution [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Wulf D. Schleip1, Mark O’Shea2,3 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Fichtenweg 11, 53340 Meckenheim, Germany [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Australian Venom Research Unit, Dept. Pharmacology, University of Melbourne, Vic., 3010, Australia [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 Reptile Department, West Midland Safari Park, Bewdley, Worcs., DY12 1LF, United Kingdom [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Corresponding author: Wulf D. Schleip ([/FONT][FONT=&quot][email protected][/FONT][FONT=&quot]). [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Academic editor: Hans-Dieter Sues[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]received 11 December 2009 | accepted 22 September 2010 | Published 4 November 2010[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](C) 2010 Wulf D. Schleip. This is an open access article distributed under the terms of the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Creative Commons Attribution License[/FONT][FONT=&quot], which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original author and source are credited.[/FONT]

 

[saximus]

Ok thanks guys that clears it up a little. I guess I'll just go with whatever the DECC happens to list it as next year when I send in my book.

 

[UlarSawa]

Sorry to hijack your thread saximus

@Nick: Could you please describe if there are any visual differences between the fuscus and the mackloti

Is it possible to differentiate the NT fuscus from the QLD fuscus visually?

Thanks

C.J.

 

[NickM]

The QLD and NT fuscus look very similar but are genetically distinct. The Macklotti look totally different. Fuscus are nearly solid black snakes with yellow ventrals. Macklotti are olive green snakes with golden colored heads and lots of gold flecking on the body. The head structure is also different with Macklotti having a wider head, relative to the neck.

Nick

 

[Waterrat]

Nick, to say that Qld fuscus are nearly solid black is bit of a incorrect generalization. In fact, the Qld specimens are very light brown in colour. This one is a Cairns specimen and I have seen them on Cape York even lighter.

 

[NickM]

True enough. I keep QLD fuscus and mine are nearly black as are all of them in the US, but our gene pool is tiny and its not surprising that it lacks the variation in phenotype seen in the wild.

Nick

 

[Waterrat]

Nick, like many other species, Water pythons up here go darker in winter and light in summer, ...... heat them up a bit.

Michael

 

[NickM]

I love my fuscus and I hope to produce them this year. They are extremely rare over here.

 

[-Peter]

Anyone got a pic of a black Australian L.fuscus?

 

[Waterrat]

Look up Wilson & Swan - the NT specimen is quite dark but not black.

 

[NickM]

Mine are such a dark brown that they look nearly back much of the time. Perhaps I will take a few pics today and post them, I could take a few pics of the macklotti as well just to illustrate the differences between them.

Nick

 

[-Peter]

Look up Wilson & Swan - the NT specimen is quite dark but not black.

Its not really what I was asking for is it?

 

[UlarSawa]

Mine are such a dark brown that they look nearly back much of the time. Perhaps I will take a few pics today and post them, I could take a few pics of the macklotti as well just to illustrate the differences between them.

Nick

Pics of both your mackloti and fuscus would be great for reference Nick.

Thanks.

C.J.