GTP: Help

[Skitzmixer]

Rather than pumping in even more heat (potentially very dangerous) I'd dump the Exo Terra, put it back into a hatchy tub, and find something with better heat-holding capabilities. All glass in cooler climates is just too damned hard.

Jamie

Haha yeah I just went through the same stuff myself! But.. I have managed to make it work, it holds its heat nice now. She's settled in nicely.. I'm glad I didn't give up in the end.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

This is my set up I have just put my new 8 month old GTP in. It is 350mm long , 250mm x 250mm on the end and has heat cord and tiles under 1/3 of the floor and the end panel with 1/3 of the sides covered with ply and styrofoam to insulate and the whole top with ply and styrofoam. It is all run off habistat dimming thermostat and is monitored with a digital min/max internal/external thermometer.

Would be nice to see actual branches in there rather than plastic perches...

Jamie

 

[andynic07]

Would be nice to see actual branches in there rather than plastic perches...

Jamie

Is there a benefit to having natural branches in a young GTP tub? I am happy to learn because I am only new to keeping them.

I have always used natural branches in all my enclosures in the past but was worried about prolapse when I got this one from all the stories that I had read and was told by a breeder that one factor that can help reduce the chances of prolapse was cleanliness and I figured that these plastic perches would be easier to keep clean.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Prolapse is much more likely to be caused by inactivity leading to a type of constipation, which allows the stool to remain in the bowel much longer than it otherwise would if the snake was moving around. As water is absorbed from the stool in the large bowel, the stool can become much drier and harder to pass, resulting in the bowel inverting far more than it would if the stool was a bit softer. If the anal sphincter closes before the bowel has retracted, you get a prolapse because the everted part of the bowel cannot return to it's normal place.

You've probably seen already that chondros are probably the laziest snakes in any collection, but the weird theories about prolapse keep coming - from stories that GTPs are poor drinkers so need water injected into prey (rubbish), to the hygiene thing. If the species was so incompetent as to not drink enough, or immune suppressed, GTPs would have died out long ago. In the wild their habitat is subject to wind, rain, fluctuating light & varying temperatures, so they would naturally move around a lot more to accommodate the changing local environment. In an enclosure, they are absolutely static - no wind, a bit of a misting occasionally, stable temperatures within a degree or so. Ultimately this is less than ideal because they find a good place and stay put - sometimes for months or even years. there are threads here constantly about how keepers put their snakes on the lawn and hey-presto, they poo. It's not because they're toilet trained, it's because the movement stimulates defecation.

I just like using natural branches because they at least give the animals a whiff of the wild, and if they become soiled, replace them with new, fresh ones. Easy...

Jamie

 

[andynic07]

Prolapse is much more likely to be caused by inactivity leading to a type of constipation, which allows the stool to remain in the bowel much longer than it otherwise would if the snake was moving around. As water is absorbed from the stool in the large bowel, the stool can become much drier and harder to pass, resulting in the bowel inverting far more than it would if the stool was a bit softer. If the anal sphincter closes before the bowel has retracted, you get a prolapse because the everted part of the bowel cannot return to it's normal place.

You've probably seen already that chondros are probably the laziest snakes in any collection, but the weird theories about prolapse keep coming - from stories that GTPs are poor drinkers so need water injected into prey (rubbish), to the hygiene thing. If the species was so incompetent as to not drink enough, or immune suppressed, GTPs would have died out long ago. In the wild their habitat is subject to wind, rain, fluctuating light & varying temperatures, so they would naturally move around a lot more to accommodate the changing local environment. In an enclosure, they are absolutely static - no wind, a bit of a misting occasionally, stable temperatures within a degree or so. Ultimately this is less than ideal because they find a good place and stay put - sometimes for months or even years. there are threads here constantly about how keepers put their snakes on the lawn and hey-presto, they poo. It's not because they're toilet trained, it's because the movement stimulates defecation.

I just like using natural branches because they at least give the animals a whiff of the wild, and if they become soiled, replace them with new, fresh ones. Easy...

Jamie

Cheers mate thanks for taking the time to give me an in depth explanation. I love seeing more natural setups as well as part of enriching my snakes life and definitely plan on making the full size enclosure more life like as planned and will even look at placing some additional real branches into my tub.

Thanks
Andy

 

[Ramsayi]

Another thing that I think is overlooked is that natural branches are better as they vary in diameter along their length which to my thinking is a good thing for the animal.Bit like uniform perches for birds being really bad for a birds feet.

 

[andynic07]

Another thing that I think is overlooked is that natural branches are better as they vary in diameter along their length which to my thinking is a good thing for the animal.Bit like uniform perches for birds being really bad for a birds feet.

All good points about natural branches and also the roughness helping with shedding, this was something that I considered and roughed up the surface with sandpaper.

 

[zulu]

Ive been using natural branches for a long time and have changed over to smooth round perches .
With rough branches it was just too difficult to remove the snakes off of them and it tended to scrape the scales, couldnt see any difference with defacation etc.
Back on subject i like the smallest containers for young GTPs as they heat up quicker than larger ones ,i like the 29c fairly uniform and stable, has worked really well for me in practice.
I have the cage inside another for a reason not just to save space, if you live in northern australia where its warmer or you have a heated room it might not be necessary.

 

[andynic07]

I just like using natural branches because they at least give the animals a whiff of the wild, and if they become soiled, replace them with new, fresh ones. Easy...

Jamie

Ive been using natural branches for a long time and have changed over to smooth round perches .
With rough branches it was just too difficult to remove the snakes off of them and it tended to scrape the scales, couldnt see any difference with defacation etc.

Very interesting about them being hard to remove from natural branches, I just cleaned out my tub this morning and took Jamie's advice about switching to natural. I just thought I would post an update and saw your post Zulu. I will see how I go and if I have hassles I will swap back.

Also it would be good to hear from Chondro_lover as to how they went with the original problem.

Cheers
Andy

 

[chondro_lover]

her tank conditions is alot better now. Im getting around 30°C from a heat mat under the enclosure. However i have tried to feed her tonight but no luck yet. She is very snappy and will take food and wrap it but wont eat it. She even had most of it down then just spat it out. Its only a pinky mice so its not a large food item. Im puzzled as to why she isnt interested in anything I have to offer her.

 

[chondro_lover]

This my lil one...

 

[andynic07]

That is a lovely looking GTP and good looking enclosure. Hopefully you can get it feeding soon. Like I said I haven't got a lot of GTP experience so hopefully someone who has more can give you some ideas. It does sound strange that it wrapped and half swallowed before spitting it out, I have read stories from the complete chondro book of them eating and regurgitating the following day.
Is it due to shed?

 

[Pythoninfinite]

her tank conditions is alot better now. Im getting around 30°C from a heat mat under the enclosure. However i have tried to feed her tonight but no luck yet. She is very snappy and will take food and wrap it but wont eat it. She even had most of it down then just spat it out. Its only a pinky mice so its not a large food item. Im puzzled as to why she isnt interested in anything I have to offer her.

It sounds to me like there is too much distraction around the snake while it is trying to eat. A nervous snake is very vulnerable while its mouth is full of food, so even if it's half-way through swallowing, if it see movement outside its enclosure, or especially you hovering over the top, it will just get rid of any impediment to self-protection and be ready to defend itself. When getting young Chondros to feed, you have to freeze once they've grabbed the pinky, and sometimes stay that way for half an hour until it is gone, or move away VERY slowly, otherwise they will just spit it out.

If it was swallowing, it's rare for it to stop unless distracted. Also, a pinky mouse may be way too small for a snake of that age - I would be offering it large fuzzies or small weaners.

Jamie

 

[brian4749]

It sounds to me like there is too much distraction around the snake while it is trying to eat. A nervous snake is very vulnerable while its mouth is full of food, so even if it's half-way through swallowing, if it see movement outside its enclosure, or especially you hovering over the top, it will just get rid of any impediment to self-protection and be ready to defend itself. When getting young Chondros to feed, you have to freeze once they've grabbed the pinky, and sometimes stay that way for half an hour until it is gone, or move away VERY slowly, otherwise they will just spit it out.

If it was swallowing, it's rare for it to stop unless distracted. Also, a pinky mouse may be way too small for a snake of that age - I would be offering it large fuzzies or small weaners.

Jamie

I agree totally with Jamie, if it's getting it half way down then spitting it out it's probably due to you distracting it. Shy feeders do this all the time and you need to become an expert at freezing as soon as it grabs the food then not moving until it's finished swallowing it. Feeding a clutch of shy feeders can take hours.

As for the wooden branches, I use natural ones in my adult cages but plastic in the juvenile's as I find that wooden ones can sometimes go mouldy in the higher humidity that I keep the juveniles at. I always allow the cage to dry out between sprays but it can be hard to balance ventilation versus humidity in small plastic containers.

Brian

 

[chondro_lover]

Hahaha im trying to stay as still as I can. I guess persistence is the key. I finally got her to feed last night. So I can stop stressing for a few days haha. But I am going to try larger feeds for her. Thanks for all you condro lovers help!!!

 

[caliherp]

her tank conditions is alot better now. Im getting around 30°C from a heat mat under the enclosure. However i have tried to feed her tonight but no luck yet. She is very snappy and will take food and wrap it but wont eat it. She even had most of it down then just spat it out. Its only a pinky mice so its not a large food item. Im puzzled as to why she isnt interested in anything I have to offer her.

Maybe the food items are to large? I've found they feed more readily on smaller prey items.

 

[chondro_lover]

So after still having trouble with her not being interested in anything I offered her, I thought about offering her something different. I went with a 1 day old quail. Thought it still looked a little big for her but once offered she thought she was in heaven. Never seen her that interested in a feed since I owned her. Just a update I thought I would let you fellow condro lovers know!