How to warn others?

[GeckoJosh]

No Geckoman, you wouldn't be able to tell if someone had a good reputation or not. Sorry, let me amend that, you wouldn't be able to tell if they deserved that good reputation. I have seen so many people on this site give rave reviews to some of the dodgiest people you could ever come across. I've also seen breeders who would give you the shirt off their back get ripped to shreds by people who've lied their behinds off. Sorry, but I'm more of a fan of the "no rating at all" system. I just don't see the point in any sort of feedback on sites like this. Not when every rip off merchant is surrounded by a new batch of sycophants each breeding season................who of course replace the last year's batch that realised too late their new best buddy was a shonk.

Yeah I can really see your point, its just way to open for people to abuse it.

 

[FAY]

I think that they should be named.

People just do not get the not naming thing.
People can make up lies about you just because they don't like you....which can ruin your reputation. There are always two sides to every story...the third probably being the truth.....
People jump up and down and say ..name and shame...until they are in the firing line and they are the ones that are targeted just because someone has taken a dislike to them.See them jump up and down then?
Obviously there are the shonky ones out there..........before buying ..do your homework...I will only buy off who I trust.
If you are new to the hobby.....go to your local reptile club and ask questions.

I have said all this before.......some just don't get it....

 

[mark83]

In my case, it's hard to get any feedback from my buyers because most of GTP keepers prefer to live in recluse. It doesn't worry me, I just have to live with it.
So, please consider, there are many others in the same situation. Just because nobody comes forward saying "he is a great bloke to deal with" doesn't mean that he isn't.

I know what you mean. Sometimes it isn't possible to get feedback but when possible it does minimise risk. Unfortunately sometimes you have to take the sellers word for it and it is a big risk. I have been burnt n the past and it isn't nice.

 

[mark83]

People just do not get the not naming thing.
People can make up lies about you just because they don't like you....which can ruin your reputation. There are always two sides to every story...the third probably being the truth.....
People jump up and down and say ..name and shame...until they are in the firing line and they are the ones that are targeted just because someone has taken a dislike to them.See them jump up and down then?
Obviously there are the shonky ones out there..........before buying ..do your homework...I will only buy off who I trust.
If you are new to the hobby.....go to your local reptile club and ask questions.

I have said all this before.......some just don't get it....

Well said Fay

 

[spongebob]

People just do not get the not naming thing.
People can make up lies about you just because they don't like you....which can ruin your reputation. There are always two sides to every story...the third probably being the truth.....
People jump up and down and say ..name and shame...until they are in the firing line and they are the ones that are targeted just because someone has taken a dislike to them.See them jump up and down then?
Obviously there are the shonky ones out there..........before buying ..do your homework...I will only buy off who I trust.
If you are new to the hobby.....go to your local reptile club and ask questions.

I have said all this before.......some just don't get it....

Thanks Fay for clarifying. As I pointed out at the begiining of this thread it's not about naming and shaming. of course there are lots of differing perceptions and one persons good guy is anothers bad...

However some of us who are a little long in the tooth can still be taken for a ride. When you find out that three other experienced herpers have also been bitten, and the culprit is a member who uses this site then such strategies are no longer viable. How do we protect ourselves in such circumstances? I firmly believe the site has some responsibility to ensure it's use is not abused.

 

[spongebob]

I'm like to also add I started this thread to progress the debate, not get bogged down in the dogma

 

[Ships]

Its not hard to do the right thing and deliver what and when you promised you would, to do otherwise on several occasions warrants some form of notification, perhaps to mods or somethng and a ban on selling though the forum for a short period? I dont know the answer but for most people the fact is that there is very little research they can do on sellers and that this site provides for most the best research tool they have available

 

[Fantazmic]

Hi everyone
I hope the moderators read my post because I think I have thought of a simple solution to this problem
Why couldnt we have a separate section on the forum called reptile breeders...just like we have one called the pub chit chat discussion etc.
Each breeder then has a permanent thread........
Now each time they sell a snake or a beardie or whatever the breeder can invite the person to leave feedback on the forum. Now I know that all the feedback that gets left will be positive....because that is the rules of the forum....but as time goes by it will be obvious which breeders are doing lots of business because of their reputations as they will have lots more positive feedback than the dodgy brothers breeders because obviously if they are dodgy nobody is going to want to leave good feedback for them. Plus anyone wanting to read the postings can message the individual people who left feedback and ask them about their experience.

Also the first post by each breeder could give a bit of a description about the breeder to start the thread off...something like

My name is fred and I breed stimmies jungles etc etc....I like to concentrate on temperament or I like colour etc etc even maybe some piccies etc

then the posts underneath would be from different members who have bought snakes and how they have found the person etc......

I really think this might work as it would create a really organised history of the breeder etc.....even if for example some of the mroe popular breeders on the list ended up with a whole stack of people leaving messages in support of them....it still gives us newbies something organised to read and it also shows who is well regarded...

Plus it is still within the rules of the site as there is nothing negative allowed to be posted...it just means that anyone who isnt well known or is a bit dodgy isnt going to have many supportive posts which straight away should set off warning bells that you need to be careful....maybe even an instructive post at the top as a sticky suggesting this and giving rules about what can and cannot be posted along the lines of the rules already made known to all of us.

Anyway just thinking out loud

Regards

Elizabeth

 

[Boney]

so if you happen to be breeding something no one wants or is out of fashion . and the feedback is not rolling in . you must be untrustworthy and dodgy ?

 

[Fantazmic]

well if you are breeding something nobody wants or is out of fashion how are you finding homes for all the baby snakes nobody wants? I dont get that ? Even snakes that are out of fashion you have to find homes for them somehow? Or do you keep everything ????????? Surely when people get a snake from you then there is a chance that you will get feedback left for you? I cannot beleive that even people breeding the more common snakes that arent as exotic etc still wouldnt have people willing to leave feedback for them.
Yes some of the smaller breeders that dont breed as often might take longer to build up their feedback profile than others who breed more often but in the scheme of things if you are doing the right thing then it should be reflected in the comments people leave for you
Having an organised spot on the forum where all the breeders are listed is surely a better way of approaching things than the current system which can be like looking for a needle in a haystack. Some of the big breeders have websites advertised...but some very worthwhile breeders on here dont and it is really hard to find them.

Clearly the mods are not going to allow us to have a thread to slag people off
So if you have a better suggestion I am sure we would all like to hear about it

Regards

Elizabeth

 

[-Matt-]

What if one person is pumping out heaps of animals thus selling a great deal and getting plenty of comments because of this, but then poor little Joe just wants to sell off his carpets that he finally managed to breed this year but has no comments so everyone thinks he is dodgy?

 

[Fantazmic]

well thats a good question
Hubby and I are hoping one day to breed jungles and we will be in exactly the same boat.
We would have to set up a profile and hope that when we advertised our snakes that we are able to get some of the people who buy from us to leave feedback so we can build up a profile. Everyone has to start somewhere...its the same on ebay....I am always cautious of anyone who is selling with no feedback......you think well how do I know what to expect here....this person has absolutely no history.
It is the same principle I think if you set up a feedback system here on the list...the power sellers will always have an advantage as clearly if they have a lot of feedback people are going to trust them more than the person just starting out.

I am honestly not sure what the answer is.........because clearly if someone doesnt have much feedback they are doing to find it hard to compete with the sellers who have lots of positive comments

Elizabeth

 

[Ramsayi]

Lots of ideas in this thread some are ok some are just plain silly.

While the idea behind it may be good the management of it would be unworkable.Besides why would or should the site owner/mods have to become referees for each and every sale that goes bad?

Things such as supplying your full address and your home phone number,no way.Some buyers have absolutely no idea of the ramifications to the seller if this was a requirement,things such as security as well as your phone ringing off the hook day and night 7 days a week just to name a couple.

Exercise a bit of common sense before purchasing off a relatively unknown.A few things such as checking to see how long they have been a member here and ask around via PM if necessary.Look at feedback for a particular seller but bear in mind a lot of people that buy don't leave feedback for many other reasons,privacy etc, not from being unhappy with their purchase.

As has already been stated by a few is that all it would take to ruin a heard earned reputation over a lot of years would be for someone with an axe to grind to post rubbish about seller or a n00b that refused to take advice and ended up killing his purchase etc.What about the few potential buyers you get each and every year who you end up refusing to sell to because it becomes clear that they wouldn't make suitable keepers?

Someone posted about some of the big breeders having websites,while that is true, dodgey breeders can very easily build a website that looks great yet is totally constructed with lies.

Also the idea of feedback while good could easily be abused.All it would take would be to get all of your mates to leave feedback for you.

 

[FAY]

While the idea behind it may be good the management of it would be unworkable.Besides why would or should the site owner/mods have to become referees for each and every sale that goes bad?.

Exactly Rams, if anyone lodges an ad in the local paper to sell something...are the newspapers responsible if the sale goes bad?
I cannot see any difference!

 

[spongebob]

One of the issues is the impossibility of getting negative feedback 'out there', under current site rules. This has allowed people to operate even though the "word on the street" was clear to those in the know. Some veterans on this site will know about a scenario a couple of years back about an enclosure seller. But how would a newbie know? Who do they PM?

The ebay system allows for reputations to be developed.....

 

[wranga]

One of the issues is the impossibility of getting negative feedback 'out there', under current site rules. This has allowed people to operate even though the "word on the street" was clear to those in the know. Some veterans on this site will know about a scenario a couple of years back about an enclosure seller. But how would a newbie know? Who do they PM?

The ebay system allows for reputations to be developed.....

theres no easy way. but this site dose have a positive feedback which newbies can look at. the site also has chat which newbies can come and ask questions, and be steered to the trusted breeders on this site that have been in the hobby for years. if newbies also look to see when an account was started that may also help show that the seller hasnt been around for long and they need to ask questions about this person.

 

[CodeRed]

You're all assuming that reptile sales revolve around APS. The vast majority of animals are sold either through other web sites or by word of mouth. This season I sold only 5-10% of my animals through APS.

 

[euphorion]

I mean would it be possible for there to be a section where a prospective buyer could post the name of their intended supplier and then invite PM's with relevant feedback?!? Just thinking out loud!

At the moment that's the only way you're going to get what you want. Site rules are site rules, and i've been bitten by them before so don't whinge, won't get us anywhere I agree with the Ebay style feedback idea, but it is impractical and frankly only relavent to APS users so the industry as a whole will just stare down it's nose. IMO just go with who you trust, if it's an interstate breeder (and presumably a valuable animal) go and pick it up in person.

 

[ShadowDragon]

The difference being Bob, that Ebay are prepared to step in and help out when deals done through their system go bad. They're a business, with the resources available to chase these things up. I don't think we can really compare ebay with APS, although I understand what you're saying. The community which uses APS is much smaller than that which uses Ebay and it makes the likelihood of deliberately giving incorrect feedback (whether good or bad) more likely. I'd personally love to see the ability to give negative feedback introduced, or the abolition of positive only options, but for many reasons it just won't happen.

 

[euphorion]

I'd personally love to see the ability to give negative feedback introduced, or the abolition of positive only options, but for many reasons it just won't happen.

totally agree. i think no feedback would be best, then you have to go to chat to find out what you want or talk to people that are more experienced than you for their opinion.