'in The Wild'

[PilbaraPythons]

It was great to see for the first time flat shelled turtles aestivate in the garden after giving them the opportunity. Some times setting up critters naturally outside brings up more questions than I ever thought I would be asking e.g. why only a percentage of our turtles here decided to do this while the others stayed in the pond and acted like it was still summer ?
Our biggest problem in trying to mimic the wild in town is actually feral cats, ( although maybe this does some how represent todays reality in the wild ) we have killed 4 in the last 3 weeks.

 

[sengir]

Jason as to your post about "IN THE WILD" in the relativity of things snakes as compared to dogs ARE WILD, how long has the dog been domesticated as to the reptile. I am not sure on the exact number but I think you could safely say a least hundreds of years, so comparing a dog to a reptile is being very simple and not really thinking your argument through. I don;t mean offense but really think about it, how in anyway do either of the two really relate in the terms of domestication, they don't really, multi generation captive bred in snake terms generally mean probably 20 predecessor lines of captive breeding which would be about 50 to 60 years at max, dogs is like hundreds or thousands of times previously captive bred, I can't explain it properly but I would hope you should all understand what I mean. So in no way can you compare reptiles to dogs. barely any of there requirements other than food and water are remotely the same.

I agree with a few things I saw in the thread. Snakes are not actually wild but are not domesticated, and I do agree that people should use this term to treat their reptiles badly, but at the same time the fact that they are one of the newest "pets" you can own or even call it one of the latest fads means that they are not all that "domesticated" hence they do need very similar conditions to what they would have to in the wild.
Hatchies are born with instincts and it takes a lot and I mean a lot of "captive" breeding to wipe out instincts, so until the original "wild" instincts are bred out of the retile keeping conditions and occasionally refering to retiles in the WILD manner cannot hurt just helps people realise and to keep them as natuaral as possible which can in no way hurt them. It can only hurt them through the lazy people who use the examples that you posted to hurt them, which by the way I do not condone, it is people like this who should not have reptiles

Have a good night
Cheers

 

[sengir]

not condoneing ppl mistreating animals. But in there defence some ppl dnt have the resources to study alot about there animals and its not like the npws who we get our books from give ppl any help just take ur cash an thats the last of it.

No offense but it is easy to pass the buck. With accessto the internet sites like this and other, also libraries and books from abook store people " IF THEY WANTED TO" could get plenty of information. JMO

 

[sengir]

we must rember that even thou these animals a in captivity they are NOT domesticated animals but wild animals that we care for. By looking and learning from their behaviour in the wild we can learn more about these animlas we all love so much. Captivity does not always give us the chance to do this.

So true trueblue

 

[Frozenmouse]

we must rember that even thou these animals a in captivity they are NOT domesticated animals but wild animals that we care for. By looking and learning from their behaviour in the wild we can learn more about these animlas we all love so much. Captivity does not always give us the chance to do this.

NOT domesticated does that depend on what color morphs you own i beg to differ some of our color forms that have been selectivly bred to suit our need weather it be for looks or $$ classes our loved snakes in the domesticated category.

 

[sengir]

NOT domesticated does that depend on what color morphs you own i beg to differ some of our color forms that have been selectivly bred to suit our need weather it be for looks or $$ classes our loved snakes in the domesticated category.

No it doesn't. Is aany particular form the same as a dog does it do as it is told does oit eaat what it is given etc etc etc, if you answered no to any of these questions the it is not domesticated.

Cheers

 

[TrueBlue]

imo, its thru observing their natural behavior etc in the wild that helps us keep and breed them sucssessfully in captivity, so the frase in the wild actually means alot to the way i keep my animals.

 

[Jason]

occasionally refering to retiles in the WILD manner cannot hurt just helps people realise and to keep them as natuaral as possible which can in no way hurt them. It can only hurt them through the lazy people who use the examples that you posted to hurt them, which by the way I do not condone, it is people like this who should not have reptiles

unfortunatly they're the ones who are the problems! dont get me wrong i love a great outdoor enclosure as much as anybody with dragon and skinks, turts etc, its the people that have these setups and offer NO food because in the wild they believe these animals dont get much food so they think they will have enough insects etc strole through the enclosure to keep them satisfied.
i know of a few big breeders that keep diamonds out side in sydney and think this is fine, because at the first sign of any health issues the animals are brought inside; they are fed properly, shelter is offered, parasites are treated etc and the animal is healthy. the example i refered to in my original post about an animal being skin and bones was a diamond that was kept out side in winter in a bird cage with no warmth offered at all, was not conditioned for cooling and end up getting RI, i suggested taking the animal to the vet and they reckon its to expensive and that it'll be fine cause they reckon such and animal would get over it and be fine in the wild!

 

[TrueBlue]

totally differnt senario thou jason, in the wild parasites dont do as much damage as they can move away from their droppings etc as alot of parasites have direct life cycles and keep re-infecting captive reptiles.
In the wild they can use the sun and under ground to regulate boby temps year round when needed.
This imo is why we must use the wild as a guide for the way we keep alot of out reptiles.

 

[Jason]

totally differnt senario thou jason, in the wild parasites dont do as much damage as they can move away from their droppings etc as alot of parasites have direct life cycles and keep re-infecting captive reptiles.
In the wild they can use the sun and under ground to regulate boby temps year round when needed.
This imo is why we must use the wild as a guide for the way we keep alot of out reptiles.

i agree. reptiles are remarkable at regulating temps and controlling parasites ect, i do know this. the problems lay with those who have the wrong idea about reptiles in the wild, people think that the regulate their temps without the need of anything eg burrowing, laying in water to help drown ectoparasites etc. i feel that people think that mites and temp regulation can be achieved as if reptiles where endotherms.

 

[OzRocks]

What i hear alot of is ...."why would i pay that much money when i can just go into my backyard and get the same thing?!!!"
I dont think some people realise that taking wild animals is considered poaching and pretty much illegal!!

 

[Frozenmouse]

i have seen alot of wild snakes and not one has been parasite free add to that most of the bigger older wild snakes have all had extensive scaring from having to deal with large prey and defend themselves from becoming prey most captive snakes i have seen are in much better condition than the best wild specimens so i recon the " in the wild" term should be left to people that dont know what they are talking about. or we could have a cage large enough to house dingos and hawks with our snakes oh and have a car drive through your enclosure every half hour too.

 

[Pythons Rule]

It is really hard to "shut your mouth" sometimes. It is the same as the pet rat and the wild rat. It's like comparing a dog to a dingo. But, customer always knows best. lol

yet they always ask for help I think some people pick surtain stores to abuse for the fun of it, and all you can really do is tell them there wrong and why there wrong. some people can be real ignorant if they won't too... Why do they have a snake or lizard if they class them as wild animals and I bet they pick it up all they time and show off with it too....:? new people need serious training.

cheers Jody

 

[zulu]

'ln

you would be suprised at how well a snake insulates its body, you will very rarely find a snake with a body temp below 12 degrees... Not reccomending it though.

Dont know about the tropics where you live waruikazi,but the snakes down south get pretty cold even in april and may at night and colder in june july.Ive found hatcling diamonds that have dropped out of pieces of old carpet and dumped debris in april and may that i thought was dead because they are nilly frozen.Adult diamonds are above ground in winter and get extremely cold and mostly underground when its hot in summer on clear days.

 

[hazzard]

A lot of hobbyists have the same logic.
eg:The snake I keep comes from an area that gets down to 6C in winter therefore I will replicate that in the enclosure.What they fail to take into account is that during the times of extreme temps the snake will most likely be holed up somewhere (insert underground) where the temps are a lot more stable and a hell of a lot warmer.Also they would most likely be in that same place when the outside temps are stinking hot.

Not to mention that there is also a high rate of mortality in the wild, should we replicate that as well!

 

[zulu]

A lot of hobbyists have the same logic.
eg:The snake I keep comes from an area that gets down to 6C in winter therefore I will replicate that in the enclosure.What they fail to take into account is that during the times of extreme temps the snake will most likely be holed up somewhere (insert underground) where the temps are a lot more stable and a hell of a lot warmer.Also they would most likely be in that same place when the outside temps are stinking hot.

Thats very true what Ramsayi says,eg,i live in sydney and we get diamonds local and they get cold in winter and hot in summer so ile put them outside in an aviary" well they mostly go alright in winter and fry in the summer when they cant go underground once they reach max temp.

 

[Clairebear]

By the way people, i only used the word 'domesticated' in my first post due to the lack of a better word for it (that's why i used the quotation marks - maybe simply captive is a better word... ). I guess while this hobby is relatively new (compared to dogs and stuff) there'll be never-ending debates on how to class what we keep... as i said until my water python sits, begs and poos in a litter tray when i tell it to, then i'll just call him Xander. Ahhh, that's easier!

 

[TrueBlue]

i agree ramsayi, thats why i use 20 odd layers of paper in my enclosures, (50 odd when they are gravid), as its really good insulation, and going under heaps of layers of paper is much like going under ground to the snakes and enables them to hold desired body temps for much longer.