Making a pond water tight/ pond tite

[Sofoula88]

So I'm building a pond and am at the stage where I'm about to paint the grout and then put a selaer on to make it water reisitant ad able to hold water without leaks etc.. I was thinking of using silicone,I have seen ppl use it on YouTube and obvisouly it is used in aquariums and fish tanks so I know it will seal it properly..I only want to put it where I know water will be held or on it 24/7.. Around the rest of the pond I was probz going to use pond tite just because l already bought it..but I have found it to be rather disappointing.. It says recommended use is 2-3 layers because it's supposed to be that strong and work but it's not very water resistant..I put like 6 layers and there are still places where it goes through,it also leave a shine which I also dnt like even tho it is transparent.. So anyway here are my two questions and concerns: Are there different types of silicone,I'm not sure which to use.. Is there a brand that better than others? Also I have heard it is toxic when wet and takes a long time to cure..should I take safety precautions when using it eg: gloves,mask? Next question is,has anyone found a better product that's not too expensive other than pondtite?.. I have had alot of trouble finding a transparent matte non toxic sealer that is waterproof..I didn't think it was this hard..so if anyone knows any other products would be willing to give them a gothanks

 

[Twitch_80]

You can get pondtite in clear or in colours, there are a few diff brands that have the same sort of thing. You can sometimes find them at bunnings or if not try a paint shop. What surface are you painting, is it smooth? For silicone you can get aquarium silicon that is tough and non toxic. Make sure you let it dry well between coats and dont do it if its raining etc.

 

[Sofoula88]

Yeh I already have pond tite like I said and it's not the best product out there imo.. But unless I find something better I guess I will stick with it.. The people who work at bunnings don't seem to know hat tere on about half the time so I was hoping some one here may have dryer knowlegde of products I could use.. I will be painting the grout as I can't seem to find a colour I want and mixing the paint in with the grout seems to give me problems..so I will paint the grout then silicone

 

[mad_at_arms]

Selleys Glass silicone sealant is the one your after.
I'm surprised that the pondtite is not doing the job.
If you go with silicone make sure you paint before hand, as you can't paint over it.
And it is fumey as. So I advise you take precautions.
I'm sure our resident DIY Guru (Jaxrtfm) will chime in soon with the solution.
Oh and post pic of said pond

 

[1woma]

is it just the shine that is the problem with pondtite?

 

[Just_Plain_Nuts]

We find pondtite unreliable as well. We used to paint on coat after coat and it would still leak.

 

[Pinoy]

There's another product you could use called pondcrete. I'd use the silicone then paint iver it with pondcrete. I've only used it in tanks but it says on the tub that it's a good pond sealer too.

 

[J-A-X]

Selleys Glass silicone sealant is the one your after.
I'm surprised that the pondtite is not doing the job.
If you go with silicone make sure you paint before hand, as you can't paint over it.
And it is fumey as. So I advise you take precautions.
I'm sure our resident DIY Guru (Jaxrtfm) will chime in soon with the solution.
Oh and post pic of said pond

I'm a Guru ?!?Nah, just a DIY tragic who has done a LOT of experimenting with different products and happy to share what has/hasn't worked for me... which may/maynot work for everyone.

As mad4400 has said, i'm very surprised the pondtite is not doing the job. One thing to remember with the clear pondtite, it is NOT FLEXIBLE its designed to go onto rock or concrete. so if you are using foam coated in grout and its not thick enough or strong enough (hence my preference for acrylic render) and you twist it while moving it or put pressure on a part that is soft underneath IT WILL CRACK.

I’ve just grabbed this off their website ( I’m at work). I’ve highlighted points that are critical.

Bondall PondTite Clear (unlike the PondTite colour range) is a non-flexible product that will not tolerate for any surface move­ment.

When using PondTite Clear, it is therefore essential that the surface area is of high quality.
· Carefully prepare the surface area.
· Ensure surface is free from any sharp edges or ‘dags’. So that means NONE of those horrible pointy drips of grout/render that look like chocolate drops and seem to appear out of nowhere !
· Ensure there is no presence of renewable moisture. Allow the grout/Render to dry COMPLETELY 3-4 days normally
· Fill any holes or cracks with a fine sand/cement mortar (Hydrocrete recommended), thoroughly worked into the area.
· Clean thoroughly to ensure surface is free from dirt, dust, salts, grease, oil or other contaminants.
· Do not apply if temperature is below 10°C, if humidity is high or if rain is expected. If you are making this outside in a pit take note of the last part of that sentence as well.
· Stir PondTite Clear slowly with broad blade or paddle. Do not shake tin.
· Use a medium to firm bristle, quality paintbrush.
· Apply directly from tin as dilution is generally not necessary. In warm conditions, to aid application, dilute by no more than 5% using clean water. Don’t dilute to save $$$,
· Avoid excess build-up in corners ensuring no bubbles are left.
· Allow first coat to dry overnight or longer if conditions are cold, damp or humid.
· Apply second coat at right angles to first coat.
· Allow at least 7 days drying time before filling with water.

As you are making a pond, not just waterproofing a wall, take note of the following as well.
· Mix small amount of dishwashing liquid with clean water in a bucket.
· Sponge surface with soapy water to remove any PondTite Clear residue.
· Rinse pond thoroughly with fresh, clean water, removing all traces of detergent.
· Fill pond with clean water and leave for 1-2 days.
· Empty pond and refill with clean water again.
· Before adding fish or plants, carefully follow water conditioning instructions from fish or aquaculture supplier.

*puts newly acquired Guru hat on*
I notice a lot of people state that they intend using pondtite to seal and add some strength to their project …. Pondtite will not add strength to anything. That is not what its purpose is, If you want strength use an appropriate base eg: acrylic render/cement/ fibreglass resin

As for your problem with it being shiney, just give the area that will not be under water a light rub with some superfine (1200g) sandpaper or fine steel wool to knock the shine off.
You have stated earlier that you used 2-3 coats, … the quote above doesn’t mention anything past a 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] coat, but im pretty sure that the tub does say something other than 2 coats, I usually put on 3-4.

a lot of issues that people have are because they don’t read or follow the instructions properly (RTFM . . Read The F…. Manual)
everything that we do with these projects also requires something that cant be bought from Bunnings…. PATIENCE !
Don’t rush, you will only create more headaches. Im not saying that is the problem in this case, but worth considering. I reckon I spend as much/more time waiting for things to dry as I do ‘doing’…. Its frustrating but it can make or break a project.

Pictures will help us help you.

@ justPlainNuts, I’d be interested to hear why you think pondtite failed in your application

 

[mad_at_arms]

I reckon I spend as much/more time waiting for things to dry as I do ‘doing’…. Its frustrating but it can make or break a project.

This is an excellent time to reread directions on the products you are using.

 

[Twitch_80]

Bondall duratite is pretty good as well, I was recommended it for a non smooth surface. You can use it with this fabric stuff to make it really strong as well as water tight, I just had a look around and cant find the fabric stuff but it called 'something' weave. I have a tin of the weave but havent used it yet, I have used the duratite but as its new I dont have a good opinion yet. As with pondtite (which I have used with success but on smooth surfaces) you can get it in diff colours etc.

 

[CHONDROS]

pond liners work very well i use one for my turlte pond its w 4.5m x L 6m xD 1.3

 

[Twitch_80]

This is an excellent time to reread directions on the products you are using.

I do that a lot, Ill read it carefully before I use the product but Ill often re-read it a few times and come up with ideas.

 

[Sofoula88]

Oki doks so a few issues to adresses for all of you asking.So yes jax I did everything like the instructions said,trust me I went over it like a nut and many different bondall products before I chose the one that seemed best suited for me. It is def a very thin layered substance and I didn't put it on for any strength assistance..I'd be stupid to think it would add strength lol..I used it on a hide I made jst to keep it water resistant for when I spray my beardies..it does seem to repel water well,I have also filled it abit jst to see if it holds water..I dnt think it's designed to but it worked ok but there were many leak points,I'm not sure if I didn't put enough on or what but I put like 4-5 layers on,maybe more coz I kept having problems but can't remember. As I said I was building a hide so I didn't really need it that waterproof but I was constantly testing it because I was making the pond next,I was jst disapointed with it.. Yes the shine annoys me,I'm worried if I sand it it will wear off the pondtite itself..even though I put many layers on it's still very thin. Also I think it cost $25 or something for a small tub,and says you don't new many layers which is soo untrue,unless you like leaks..so you need to use a fair bit,also as it states it's not for painted surfaces I dnt think so it kinda changed the colour abit also.. So yeh just wasn't happy with it but that's jst me,maybe others have had better luck/success with it .. Anyway I will def be using silicone for the pond as I know it will def do it's job..I will post up pics soon even though rhe pond is still a work in progressthanks for all the help everyoneHere you go, here are some pics of my hide and he most recent pics of the pondI'm really happy with the way it's looking so far,but keep in mind it's still not finished..I just put on the back as you can see to camoflouge the filter which has been a pain in my ***..so that is obviosly not done yet,also thinking I may have to do some more tweeks..possibly make the fall part where the water will fall down abit bigger so it's almost like two because it may look too small..but I won't know til I stick the top part on which u can't see in that picture..anyhoo few things to figure out but it'll get there.. Let me know what you guys think of it so far =] The Hide: http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz121/sofoula88/4e7060fd.jpg http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz121/sofoula88/b20280ac.jpg [/url] The pond: before- http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz121/sofoula88/a2d83519.jpg After- http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz121/sofoula88/86b62318.jpg http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz121/sofoula88/9b5da5bd.jpg

 

[Just_Plain_Nuts]

I'm a Guru ?!?Nah, just a DIY tragic who has done a LOT of experimenting with different products and happy to share what has/hasn't worked for me... which may/maynot work for everyone.

As mad4400 has said, i'm very surprised the pondtite is not doing the job. One thing to remember with the clear pondtite, it is NOT FLEXIBLE its designed to go onto rock or concrete. so if you are using foam coated in grout and its not thick enough or strong enough (hence my preference for acrylic render) and you twist it while moving it or put pressure on a part that is soft underneath IT WILL CRACK.

I’ve just grabbed this off their website ( I’m at work). I’ve highlighted points that are critical.

*puts newly acquired Guru hat on*
I notice a lot of people state that they intend using pondtite to seal and add some strength to their project …. Pondtite will not add strength to anything. That is not what its purpose is, If you want strength use an appropriate base eg: acrylic render/cement/ fibreglass resin

As for your problem with it being shiney, just give the area that will not be under water a light rub with some superfine (1200g) sandpaper or fine steel wool to knock the shine off.
You have stated earlier that you used 2-3 coats, … the quote above doesn’t mention anything past a 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] coat, but im pretty sure that the tub does say something other than 2 coats, I usually put on 3-4.

a lot of issues that people have are because they don’t read or follow the instructions properly (RTFM . . Read The F…. Manual)
everything that we do with these projects also requires something that cant be bought from Bunnings…. PATIENCE !
Don’t rush, you will only create more headaches. Im not saying that is the problem in this case, but worth considering. I reckon I spend as much/more time waiting for things to dry as I do ‘doing’…. Its frustrating but it can make or break a project.

Pictures will help us help you.

@ justPlainNuts, I’d be interested to hear why you think pondtite failed in your application

Because the pondtite has no strength or flexibility if there is any expansion or contraction or damage by claws, the whole thing fails. At the time we where still using foam and render, so expansion or damage where very real factors. And when you sell enclosures people expect reliability, so we completely ditched those methods in lue of more reliable methods. oh I don't remember who mentioned painting over silicone, it is a big no no and wont work. We found what works best with the foam and render type construction is a shower basin sealer. I dont remember what it's name is, i would have to see if i still have some. It is non toxic and waterbased and has a thick gluggy tar colour and consistency. A few thick coats of this UNDER your grout will work a treat. I prefer it because it is flexible along with waterproof so it is a lot more reliable.

 

[Sofoula88]

"..so I will paint the grout then silicone"for all of you who keep mentioning painting silicone..as I wrote before I will NOT be painting over the silicone..why would I do that

 

[J-A-X]

the most that my work has to cope with is scales, not claws. and i use the pondtite more to make cleaning easier and eliminate urine absorbtion,
You now realise i'm just gonna have to make a 'pond' just to see how best to make it watertight dont you ! ! I'm so going to have to start a list to 'test' projects.

Sofoula88 i wasnt infering that you hadn't read the instructions but it has become obvious in other threads (just by dates 'I did xyz today') that people are not allowing render to dry totally before the next coat of render/sealer is applied. so i thought while we were discussing pondtite pros and cons i'd put the info up.

the pics that you have posted of your pond in progress, its hard to tell if its walls and floor in one or if you've glued the walls to the floor, if its the latter then i would definately use a flexible sealer and not pondtite. but depending on the size of it, i wouldnt be too sure that pondtite would work on the walls and floor in one, because once you fill it with water it will make the top edge push out, and cause a crack in the bottom edge....

does that make sense. please make sure you let us know how the silicone works.

 

[Sofoula88]

Hi jax, yes the walls are glued to the bottom..I thought that was the easiest way to make a pond and get the shape I wanted..I guess it looks ok so far..I def don't think the pond tite would hold up in it as far as waterproofing,well it might but ud need alot of it..I have smoothed out the sides and corners in the actual pool part..so it's fairly smooth everywhere so hopefully it will be easier to apply the silicone..however the outside if you can see I have carved rock shapes so there are crevices everywhere hence why I was hoping not to use the pondtite.. I think it's fine for smooth surfaces but yeh I dunno..maybe you can use it on your pond and see how it goes =] anyway yeh will post up another thread once I silicone

 

[J-A-X]

I'd rule the pondtite out simply because the sides wouldn't be rigid enough. Silicone will definitely do the job, and it looks good shape and detail wise so far, it should look great when finished

 

[mad_at_arms]

When I do my water feature. I plan to use a plastic container (maybe a cordial bottle) cut to suit and build around it with foam. That way I only have to worry about splash areas and not sealing the reservior.

 

[1woma]

When I do my water feature. I plan to use a plastic container (maybe a cordial bottle) cut to suit and build around it with foam. That way I only have to worry about splash areas and not sealing the reservior.

that was my plan to