No vermiculite,water incubation method!

[obee]

Does anyone have any experience with the no substrate method of incubation as described in the Greg Maxwell,"The Complete Chondro."
I know of a guy who used to use this method about 8 years ago who swears by it for all species.He never failed for years with his bhp's.I have lost contact with him,so any info other than what I have read would be great!

 

[NCHERPS]

I haven't used this method myself, but a friend in the US uses the following:

He gets a plastic tub puts a inch of water in the tub, then uses the lighting grate, although something similar can be used, like a upside down plastic cutlery tray.The tray or lighting grate is suspended over the water.
Onto the rim of the tub is secured some padded draft excluder, the type used for draft exclusion on door frames, then you put some liquid onto the inside part of the glass and rub it in, this liquid is the stuff that use use to clear your mask when diving, it stops condensation forming on the inside of the glass. The glass is then placed on top and an air tight seal is created, he doesn't vent the box once a week like most people do, just once a week toward the last few weeks of incubation.
He used this method for many years and has hatched everything from Ball pythons to Chondro's.
I have personally never tried it, but thought I would mention it, as he and others have had great success with it.

Neil

 

[obee]

Thanks neil,some great info there.As I said this guy I knew used it for his bhp's and always got a 100% hatch rate.He used a triangular lid so condensation would run down the sides.I like your info better.

 

[africancichlidau]

Trying it for the first time this season with a few "expendable" eggs

 

[munkee]

I'm curious couldn't this put the humidity too high and potentially rupture the eggs? I've read that can happen with high Humidity. Haven't incubated anything myself yet (next year). It would be good to find out if this is a good method especially for bhps.

 

[The Rock]

I get 100 percant hatch rate in bhps using vermiculite. Most people use to much moisture when incubating bhps hence the problem.

 

[Stevo]

What rate do you use for Bhp's then, 40/60?

 

[Morelia_Hunter]

Great to see you using the method Afro! Good luck!!!

 

[The Rock]

I dont use any weighed amounts I do it by feel, and the anount of condensation,(or lack of it), in the egg container. This is some thing that must be shown personally not described over phone or internet to get it right. Once you have mastered this, incubation becomes a breeze. Unlike most breeders I can and do count my chickens,sorry reptiles, before they hatch every year without fail.

 

[Guest]

Dumb question but why dont you let the animal do it?

 

[NCHERPS]

Dumb question but why dont you let the animal do it?

In a captive enviroment, it is harder to control the relative humidity and temps required to achieve good hatch rates with maternal incubation, also the female losses alot of body condition from incubating the egg's herself, and so it is hard to get her back upto prime condition for the following breeding season.

Neil

 

[lutzd]

Hey Afro..... they look like chook eggs to me! Don't think that'll work too well, but I guess if you want to breed alternate food items...... ;-)

 

[Guest]

Let me know how you go

 

[serpenttongue]

Dumb question but why dont you let the animal do it?

In a captive enviroment, it is harder to control the relative humidity and temps required to achieve good hatch rates with maternal incubation, also the female losses alot of body condition from incubating the egg's herself, and so it is hard to get her back upto prime condition for the following breeding season.

Neil

Also, removing the eggs for artificial incubation allows you to observe the eggs whenever you desire and remove any that may spoil. This cant really be done when a female is tightly coiled around them.

 

[Guest]

I did the no substrate methed last year, I used a layer of perlite with the egg crate on top, then I just poored the water into the perlite a little at a time until there was a lite mist on the sides of the egg box, of course you need to get it right before you get eggs. This worked great and I will be doing it again this year. And if at any time it's looking to drie all you need to do is add a little more water (I never need to). This clutch had a 100% hatch rate.

 

[africancichlidau]

Hey Afro..... they look like chook eggs to me! Don't think that'll work too well, but I guess if you want to breed alternate food items......

Dai Bach!! You just had to tell everyone, didn't you?!?!

 

[herptrader]

I'm curious couldn't this put the humidity too high and potentially rupture the eggs? I've read that can happen with high Humidity. Haven't incubated anything myself yet (next year). It would be good to find out if this is a good method especially for bhps.

My understanding is that humidity close to 100% and basically dry air is the ideal.

The vermiculite method works well because it absorbs any moisture in the air but keeps it available so the humidity stays at 100%. The larger the grade of vermiculite the better to improve air circulation around the eggs and keep condensed moisture away from the eggs. Vermiculite is also free of organic material which helps limit fungal growth and other problems.

It comes as no surpise that other methods, such as the one described in Greg Maxwell's book (which is now out of print BTW) are just as effective.

Both methods rely on well sealed containers to keep the humidity up. The simplicity of this approach has a lot of appeal.

 

[beknluke]

Hey Guys, can I just ask...
I have seen a lot of pics of snake eggs that are dinted - but have hatched?? I have always been told (in regards to dragon eggs) that if they start to deflate, you have to up the humidity or they can die. I am assuming that this is seriously not the case with python eggs? Is anyone able to share their experiences with lizard eggs? (Mods, you can move this if you need to) I would love to try that egg crate and water method but knowing my luck, all the lizards would hatch, get past the flywire and drown :? I think I'll stick to vermiculite for now

 

[herptrader]

I do not have first hand experience with lizard eggs so I will leave that question for somebody else.

With python eggs they seem to have some indentation from the moment they are laid and this is normal. A few days before hatching they seem to indent even more. I have presumed that this is because the egg is at the end of its life (having done its job as a little one on one python factory) and is dying. I further surmise that this is the cue for the baby python to get its egg tooth into action and start life outside of the egg.

Eggs that are drying out due to lack of humidy will obviously indent more. I have heard that they can recover when humidity is restored but I have never allowed my eggs to dry out.

Hey Guys, can I just ask...
I have seen a lot of pics of snake eggs that are dinted - but have hatched?? I have always been told (in regards to dragon eggs) that if they start to deflate, you have to up the humidity or they can die. I am assuming that this is seriously not the case with python eggs? Is anyone able to share their experiences with lizard eggs? (Mods, you can move this if you need to) I would love to try that egg crate and water method but knowing my luck, all the lizards would hatch, get past the flywire and drown :? I think I'll stick to vermiculite for now

 

[The Rock]

Herptrader,- I cant speak for anyone else but my egg containers are definitely not well sealed, infact I make sure that there are air holes on the lid down one end and afew on the side of container down other end. I also open the incubator every 1-2 days to expel unwanted gases and give a good air transfer.