Question 4: Is an Albino Jungle Jaguar carpet python really Wild life?

[andynic07]

What is the conservation value of privately kept snakes? When was the last time private keepers were called upon for their home bred reptiles to repopulate diminished wild populations? Where would you release an albino jungle jaguar carpet python to replenish dwindling populations?

There is obviously dwindling populations of albino jungle jags and even paradox pythons in my area because I can't recall seeing any and would appreciate I someone would release a few for me to see.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Where should the line be drawn?- i think wildlife should be life in the wilds not in captivity. Whilst the National Parks and Wildlife Service virtually abandon wild reptiles, instead taking the easy gig of captive reptiles. Captive reptiles dont need NPWS help. They are doing just fine. It is about time the NPWS looked after their charged responsibility instead of wasting their limited rescourses on captive reptiles. Any captive reptile is not wildlife and therefore should not be subject to licence. Crossbreds and morphs are certainly not wildlife!

Wokka has hit the nail square on the head here... The laws we deal with here & now date from 50 years ago when captive breeding wasn't even to be dreamed about, so the animals in captivity simply came from the wild and could reasonably be referred to as native fauna. The landscape has changed so much in the last 30 years that those laws, and the bureaucrats pushing them, are way behind the 8-ball with regard to managing captive reptiles & their keepers. But they don't like relinquishing power or whatever control they think they may have... and as I mentioned in my post in Gavin's last thread, there are some among us who do things which draw unfavourable attention to reptile keepers as a whole. We're all in the same bag as far as bureaucracies are concerned...

Jamie

 

[yellowbeard]

An Albino Jungle Jaguar Carpet Python has Darwin, Coastal and Jungle DNA mixed together, this could never happen in the wild so they should not be considered Australian Native wildlife they should be considered captive bred reptiles.

When does Australian Native wildlife become captive bred? A pair of pythons caught in the wild (Australian Native wildlife) and bread together are their offspring (F1) captive bred or Australian Native wildlife? or is it the F2 or F3 or F4 generations?

Technically the F1 offspring should be classed as captive bred, as they were actually bred in captivity.

Where will the line in the sand be drawn and by whom?

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Actually I was of the understanding, despite the smoke surrounding them, that part of Jag genetics came from New Guinea, via Europe of course...

Jamie

 

[yellowbeard]

Actually I was of the understanding, despite the smoke surrounding them, that part of Jag genetics came from New Guinea, via Europe of course...

Jamie

From what I understand that the Jag mutation was developed from a coastal pairing in northern Europe

 

[Cold-B-Hearts]

I think that they are best described as native Australian pets. I hear a lot of people say no captive python will ever be able to be released into the wild so can we really call them wildlife?

im with you on this one, obviously these are "native snakes" The fact they have a mutation or two doesn't make they foreign it just means if for some reason they were released into the wild ( in there appropriate locality) most likely wouldn't survive. They are hardly WILDlife more appropriate caleld CAPTIVElife.

 

[longqi]

Actually I was of the understanding, despite the smoke surrounding them, that part of Jag genetics came from New Guinea, via Europe of course...

Jamie

Yellowbeard is probably correct about the original pairing as Jan Engels still says the original pair were both coastals

But Python is 100% correct in his statement that Aussie jags have Iryan Jaya in them
First jags were big snakes comparable in size to coastals
Because the yellow was not bright enough IJs were introduced
IJs are small
Aussie; and most international, jags rarely exceed much over 2 metres
Any 'pure' coastal jag should be expected to easily reach 3metre++
So the IJ is definitely a big part of the mix now

 

[eipper]

The second something can no longer be released into wild, it is no longer wildlife. It becomes a non domesticated animal ie pet...in the same way tropical fish are "pets".

 

[TrueBlue]

not even pets, just feral vermin.

 

[Wild~Touch]

IMO

The trick to this questions is: Pure Australian Pure Native Morelia pythons with the emphasis on "PURE" (uncontaminated by genes other than Native Australian.)


All other mixed up Morelias should be regarded as pets and therefore controlled by the pet industry PIAA (Very strong Association)

BUT ... How do you know what you really have in hand

Should you have confidence in the breeder and/or the stories that go with the onsold specimens ?

In all fairness some folk would not know the difference or care

The real value lies in genuine integrity

 

[eipper]

Bulldust Sandie,

Unless the are collected from the same locality (within the standard home range of that particular species) they are no longer pure or even a true "wild type". This can only occur when the collection data is transparent and accurate ie part of a study.

eg Murray Darling Carpets occur from Mt Isa to Mt Hope in Victoria, they might all be MD's but they are not the same. To bred an ISA over a Mt Hope and expect the offspring to be a wild type of conservation value is false as it is not a true representation of either locality even though they are the same species.

 

[Wild~Touch]

should an Albino Jungle Jaguar Carpet Python be considered Australian Native wildlife?

Where should the wildlife laws draw the line?


Please allow me to clarify my previous post as I am NOT referring to locale specific Morelia within Australia., ie, crossing of subspecies or locale specific species


My point is... Any python (living in Australia atm) with even a minute percentage of imported blood can not/should

not be classified as (pure pristine) Australian Native wildlife

My opinion only

Cheers
Sandee

 

[paultheo]

all captive bred snakes that are in the hands of hobbyists, and that are being bred by the same should be classified as pets, no captive bred animals should ever be released into the wild, so they have lost their wildlife stature.
If the snake was specifically captured and bred as part of a re-population attempt by the govt. for highly endangered species like they do for the Bliby and tassie devil and the animals were released as soon as they were hatched then that would be acceptable, otherwise all our snakes are and always will be pets.

thats my two cents, cheers.

 

[Umbral]

They are based on Australian animals and while they are not species pure the blend all came from here and as such are Australian animals. Do they represent what is found in the wild though.... No. Do they have any conservation value no.



wild·life (wldlf)
n.
Wild animals and vegetation, especially animals living in a natural, undomesticated state.

So are they wildlife....No.

 

[BigDaddyO]

I tend to agree that captive animals bred for morphs wouldnt be classed as wildlife. But then perhaps we put too much importance on that word in the first place.
Tassie devils breeding programs are selectively breeding the 3 females that were found to be genetically resistant to the facial tumor disease.
On a scientific level this is no different to morph breeding. This is done purely to benefit the animals and maintain the species.
Should we then consider these animals not wildlife after a few generations? Are they then unfit for release back into tasmania?
Seems a bit abitrary for us to say something that doesnt benefit the animal makes it not "wild life" but something that does is wild life conservation.

 

[Umbral]

The Tassie devils are being bred to other Tassie devils, with reptiles it breeding diamonds with jungles etc. and to make them look appealing to us not to make them survive.

Its like asking if breeding a Tassie devil to an albino quoll that has seisures but better colours would still be concise red wildlife.

 

[BigDaddyO]

The Tassie devils are being bred to other Tassie devils, with reptiles it breeding diamonds with jungles etc. and to make them look appealing to us not to make them survive.

Its like asking if breeding a Tassie devil to an albino quoll that has seisures but better colours would still be concise red wildlife.

I wasn't disagreeing. Like I said I would agree with the statement that morph breeds are not wild animals.
However some points were brought up that any captive bred python cannot be considered wildlife or native australian animals.
Simply pointing out the semantics of using the term wildlife so concisely.