Question about snake show with tiger snakes

[bobthefish]

Hi all- question for you.

My daughter just attended a snake show with her Year 1-2 class. The company doing the show had a live, non-defanged, active and wild caught Tiger snake that they let the kids pet. The only restraint was the handler holding it behind the head. This was in a room with somewhere around 40 kids between 5 and 8, and two teachers.

Am I missing something, or is this not a real good idea? Apparently it's very common here in Tassie.

I'd greatly appreciate your opinions before I pursue this matter with the school and government.

 

[longqi]

So long as the handler was in total control there was no danger to the kids

BUT
To encourage kids to pet any snake in Tasmania could potentially lead to problems unless they very clearly taught them that they should never try to do this themselves
Tasmanian demonstrators would like to show kids that snakes are not slimy horrible beasties that will kill you on sight and that is something that should really be encouraged
Because of your laws down there they cannot use pythons to do this like they can in other states
So the demonstrators are caught with having to use tigers etc
Educationally it is an excellent way to assist in teaching kids about our wonderful reptiles
The tiger was most probably one of their pets
But showing it as a wild snake just adds to the 'mystique' of it all

 

[redlittlejim]

Im with longqi on this, probably had since A hatchie and just play it off as wild. As long as they said that they should not be patting them in wild! Good education for them I think

 

[snakeluvver]

In South Africa at a reptile show I've petted a Green Mamba and some type of cobra, using the same method, but I was 10 and knew the dangers. Someone that young in Tassie may try to go out and grab one behind the head and pat it, and that will probably not end well. I personally think its a stupid idea to let kids that young pat a deadly snake, as they dont understand the dangers.

 

[sookie]

So where do we draw the line of educating kids?at what age are they to young to be playing with snakes,any kind.they all present their own certain dangers,ven or not.and it goes back to the emotion discussion,does the deadly tiger know it's place in the game,does it recognise that the kids are excited and curious and harmless?

 

[Waterrat]

and it goes back to the emotion discussion,does the deadly tiger know it's place in the game,does it recognise that the kids are excited and curious and harmless?

The tiger snake does not recognise anything, it's a reptile, not a person and tiger or any other species are not emotional in any shape or form. Their emotions are limited to biting or not biting - to put it simply.

 

[cougars]

Stupid idea...Handler slips up your child gets bitten,Imagine receiving that phone call.

 

[Inspiration]

Not sure about in Tassie, but we live in NQ and my daughter was holding snakes and crocodiles at wildlife parks and shows from about the age of 2 without me holding them with her like I did when she was under that age. I do think it's a bit silly with that many kids, though, because kids are loud, they have sudden movements, snakes can become startled, their "fight or flight" instinct (that we all have) sets in, you never know what happens. My daughter was bitten by a 4 foot python, decent sort or a bite even through heavy denim but at least it wasn't venomous. We had to keep it clean to stop it from getting infected, but no hospital stays or fear of her dying from the bite other than if it became infected. Not sure I'd be keen on my child being the one to touch it unless it was in a group of older kids who were not as likely to jump and make noise.

 

[Jonno from ERD]

That's a ridiculously irresponsible thing for them to do. I'm all for full hands-on interaction with non-venomous reptiles, but the message that should be sent to kids about venomous snakes is a very clear "look but don't touch!".

 

[wokka]

If people must pet snakes I am sure there are safer snakes to use for demonstration. Safer for reptile reputation and safer for the children. If the handler slipped for one of many reasons any good could soon be undone.

 

[bigguy]

In most states the laws that govern exhibitors makes this practice illegal. However, in Tasmania there may be no laws and this practice is allowed. I personally feel it is a highly stupid thing to do. Just one slip and oppps, sorry about that. Not worth the risk.

As for using harmless species, Tasmania does not allow importation of reptiles. So for hands on they only have a choice of 3 venomous species, so they are up the creek without a paddle.

 

[Nighthawk]

I'd be pursuing it. Ages 10+ they're old enough to understand 'look but don't touch', but any younger than that you really have to know the child to know if that knowledge is developed enough to take effect. I would trust my daughter at that age to know the difference, but we've raised her with and around snakes. She's four and knows not to touch any wild snakes she sees and to go get mum and dad, but if she came home from school at age 5-8 telling me that a handler had come it and was letting the children touch vens I'd still be having words with her teacher. Yeah, it's up to the parents to educate their children on what can and cannot be dangers in their immediate environment, but how many people actually do that? Count on one hand how many people reach for the telephone to call a catcher rather than a shovel. I'm all for educating future generations on native fauna, but there are ways to do it and giving kids the idea that a tiger snake is safe enough to approach, and whether or not an adult is telling them 'not to do it at home' if he's letting them stroke it there some kids don't hear the alternate message, that's not the way to do it. Not at that age anyway.

 

[snakehandler]

Some of the people permitted to demonstrate reptiles in Tassie actually do have pythons and other reptiles which are much safer to pat. In Victoria a person who is not a demonstrator or demonstrators assistant (general public) cannot make contact with a reptile that is classified as a venomous animal, whether it can inflict a venomous bite or not.....its part of our regulations!

 

[longqi]

Some of the people permitted to demonstrate reptiles in Tassie actually do have pythons and other reptiles which are much safer to pat. In Victoria a person who is not a demonstrator or demonstrators assistant (general public) cannot make contact with a reptile that is classified as a venomous animal, whether it can inflict a venomous bite or not.....its part of our regulations!

I never knew this at all about Demonstrators down there being allowed pythons
This totally changes everything
If they had access to pythons but still used Tigers in a petting display with kids it was unacceptable
Although I still believe it could have been done safely there were safer alternatives they did not use

 

[kawasakirider]

In South Africa at a reptile show I've petted a Green Mamba and some type of cobra, using the same method, but I was 10 and knew the dangers. Someone that young in Tassie may try to go out and grab one behind the head and pat it, and that will probably not end well. I personally think its a stupid idea to let kids that young pat a deadly snake, as they dont understand the dangers.

What makes you more intelligent and aware of dangers than other children in Tassie?

The situation was probably safe, but there's always a minute chance something could go wrong... The handler could have tripped, have a stroke or anything. Unlikely, though. I'm sure the teacher would have wrangled the snake in no time, though

 

[Waterrat]

In Victoria a person who is not a demonstrator or demonstrators assistant (general public) cannot make contact with a reptile that is classified as a venomous animal, whether it can inflict a venomous bite or not.....its part of our regulations!

So, how do the "venomoids" fit into the schema of things? Are they still being used in demos? Please no RH bashing.

 

[$NaKe PiMp]

i would really like to see evidence that touching a restrained elapid is going to make kids go running to the nearest bushland and dive on a tiger snake.

 

[imported_Varanus]

i would really like to see evidence that touching a restrained elapid is going to make kids go running to the nearest bushland and dive on a tiger snake.

It's already to late for some of us SP!

 

[longqi]

What waterrat asked is a very valid point
Why would Victorian Demonstrators even own vens if they cant let anyone touch them??

My first contact with touchable snakes was at La Perouse in Sydney
First snake I got to hold unassisted was a beautiful brownie at the same place
Probably many of the older hobbyists had similar experiences??

 

[cement]

I did a demo at a school with young kids not that long ago , its not the snakes that you have to watch its the kids.
They bunch up and push and shove each other, they all want to touch and hold, their bloody noisy.

Theres no way I do it with vens!

I told them all to shut up and be quite (not those exact words!) while i went around with my brain damaged (so very quite) lacie, and the noise level just kept going up and up and I was trying to give the teacher the nod to ask them to quieten down but he wasn't watching. So I copped a floggin from the claws on one arm! Its the kids i tell ya! Monsters!