Reptiles as display animals?

[Em1986]

Hey guys, not sure if this has been covered on here or not before (i wasn't exactly sure what it would come under when searching) so please don't get up me if it's been covered! Sorry that it is sort of long and drawn out too, thinking while typing :?

I am wondering what everyone's view is of getting a snakes/snakes that have bad temperaments just to look nice and be display animals in your house? Do many of you keep reptiles like this (not talking about elapids obviously) that you have known before buying them that they weren't going to be very friendly or easily handled?

I know of 2 snakes that are absolutely stunning in my eyes but are quite snappy so it made me wonder if anyone else buys 'just for looks' (other than for breeding) and what people's opinions are on this?

On one hand it is kind of a waste not to be able to 'play' with them but on the other hand it would be amazing to have them because they are so aesthetically pleasing to me and are not 'domesticated' and can be viewed showing semi-natural behaviour. These particular snakes aren't young/hatchies so not sure if they would be able to be tamed down or not.

It also makes me wonder how you would go about general cleaning of the enclosure/s and feeding etc without being constantly tagged all the time (don't just say 'very carefully'). Is there a strategy or way of doing maintenance to lower the risks/chance of being tagged all the time? I know about gloves and hooks for handling etc but more wondering about time of the day, very quickly during/after feeding etc.

Thanks in advance to anyone that has read this far and leaves a reply. Sorry about the length again.

 

[Australis]

If you want to keep some as display animals go for it.
I have some fish in a tank here that are purely display, not handled at all.

If you are worried about being bitten, just used a hook (& common sense) to get the animal out, and put it into a large container with a lid, clean enclosure, then hook it back out.

 

[Em1986]

If you want to keep some as display animals go for it.
I have some fish in a tank here that are purely display, not handled at all.

If you are worried about being bitten, just used a hook (& common sense) to get the animal out, and put it into a large container with a lid, clean enclosure, then hook it back out.

Thanks for the reply I also have 3 fish tanks running here and had thought of that too (may sell my large tank to get more reptiles lol) but thought it would be a bit different because snakes are seen more as a pet that can and should be handled etc and fish can't really be handled or at least handled out of water for too long lol. I
am not too scared/worried of being tagged (as in i'm not scared of being bitten but i know these particular snakes do strike and tag their owners now) or anything but wouldn't like to be tagged and hurt the snake/s (read stories of them being flung accross the room and hurt badly and having metho poured down their throats because they won't let go and of people pulling their hand away and having teeth left in them and dislocating the snakes jaw etc) so i would prefer not to provoke them to strike me so i can lessen the possible injuries to both me and the snake/s.

I guess commonsense will play a huge role in it as in washing my hands thoroughly after feeding, wearing gloves, using tongs to feed etc. Is there a certain time when a snake is less likely to strike or more likely to strike as in when they are cold and disturbed or freshly fed so the feeding response is a bit lower?

I guess it's sort of like the plant on my windowsil, it looks good and still gets looked after but i don't play with it and it isn't edible and doesn't get flowers etc so is purely there for aesthetics.

 

[user 29560]

On one hand it is kind of a waste not to be able to 'play' with them but on the other hand it would be amazing to have them because they are so aesthetically pleasing to me and are not 'domesticated' and can be viewed showing semi-natural behaviour. These particular snakes aren't young/hatchies so not sure if they would be able to be tamed down or not.

It sounds to me like you think that we should be keeping reptiles as pets and treating them as pets and showing them affection and attention, etc. I think frankly if we were concerned in the best interest of the animal alone, we would avoid any sort of avoidable interaction with it to maintain a natural, private lifestyle. Most of the animals we keep spend their lives as solitary animals apart from brief encounters to mate with another of their species and of course anything they can feed on (or things that feed on them). Turning your bearded dragon or python into a family friend who watches TV on your lap is all well and fine, but I don't think keeping a pet and providing it with a perfectly natural lifestyle is a 'waste' by any stretch.

I personally handle all of my reptiles, so don't think I'm a zealot about unnecessary handling. I only have a couple of geckos who are not partial to being held and so I generally don't handle them, but I provide them with the best care they've ever had (they were adopted from bad care homes) and they are free of any sort of predation. Also, if they have troubles with sheds or find their bathroom getting to be a mess, there's a divine hand from above that occasionally sees to their needs.

I just think it's important to remember that any sort of handling we do with almost any reptile species is more for our own pleasure than theirs. Many reptiles (including most of mine) appear to be receptive or even stimulated by handling, but in reality this is most likely more of a tolerance than anything and there's no evidence I've seen of any emotional benefit to a reptile to be treated as a buddy. There is, however, scads of evidence to the contrary that suggests that most species will have many specimens who generally display a preference to solitude and privacy and behaviors suggesting otherwise would certainly be an exception and not a rule.

So, while I love to handle my reps, I think keeping display animals is absolutely fine and even necessary. Preservation of strong numbers of species and additional research requires that there be people willing to keep, study and be interested in animals who are not meant to be treated as pets.

It also makes me wonder how you would go about general cleaning of the enclosure/s and feeding etc without being constantly tagged all the time (don't just say 'very carefully'). Is there a strategy or way of doing maintenance to lower the risks/chance of being tagged all the time? I know about gloves and hooks for handling etc but more wondering about time of the day, very quickly during/after feeding etc.

Thanks in advance to anyone that has read this far and leaves a reply. Sorry about the length again.

I can't speak much about the best ways to clean aggressive animal cages as I have only been snapped at a few times by my snakes when they were scared by noise while cleaning and during feeding. I've never been bit, but maybe that's because I'm careful. I always open the door to the enclosure slowly and speak to them to make sure they are awake and aware I'm going to be engaging them. If you're trying to be slow and cautious to not bother them, you might just startle them even worse when they realize what's up. So, I make sure they are aware of my presence and then I reach in and touch the animal in a non-threatening place, like an outer coil in the mid-section and see how they react. They usually recoil a bit and maybe give me a big exhale of the lungs, but I just keep a hold and move them around a little and they realize they're getting moved and submit without issue and I can pick them up. If I get any sort of a sharp response from the initial contact like really quickly fleeing for a hide, I'll just let them do that because they're telling me what they want. If I need to do maintenance, just block the hide exit while you clean and you're good to go.

 

[joelly116]

most dont like to be handled anyway they just put up with it, i think if your buying a snake you should know its not somthing you play with or handle alot its, its fine to have just display only snakes as its just normal you only get them out to clean and what not, thats how alot of ppl keep there snakes anyway on move them to clean and feed

 

[Em1986]

It sounds to me like you think that we should be keeping reptiles as pets and treating them as pets and showing them affection and attention, etc. I think frankly if we were concerned in the best interest of the animal alone, we would avoid any sort of avoidable interaction with it to maintain a natural, private lifestyle. Most of the animals we keep spend their lives as solitary animals apart from brief encounters to mate with another of their species and of course anything they can feed on (or things that feed on them). Turning your bearded dragon or python into a family friend who watches TV on your lap is all well and fine, but I don't think keeping a pet and providing it with a perfectly natural lifestyle is a 'waste' by any stretch.

I didn't mean for it to sound that way at all, it's just that a lot of reptiles tend to be treated as a pet to show off and be all snuggly with etc.
I am new to all of this and only got my first reptiles a week ago and they are not treated like a cat or dog as in i don't sit on the lounge with them on my lap etc but i have bathed them and i do pat them and get them out and hold them etc but not to the extent some people go to. It's mainly only one of them that is quite tame and eager to explore beyond the enclosure. Other than that they have their enclosure and all their needs taken care of and i still interact with them through the glass. I do give them their privacy though and don't mess with them if they show signs that they don't want to be messed with.
I mainly meant that these 2 particular snakes are quite agressive and won't be able to be handled and i know a lot of people sort of 'baby' their reptiles judging by some of the photos i have seen. I was also worried people may think it is selfish to just have them as a display (some people probably do) even though a lot of you guys probably have your reptiles as display animals so i am glad that you don't see a problem with it
I also don't want it to seem like i am getting them as a sort of 'trophy' to brag about. I just want them because they are aesthetically pleasing and something that i will enjoy watching and having around, i probably won't even breed them (there is a pair)! I guess i am just not sure if my reason for wanting them is justified, i have seen people on here that just want snakes that are able to be handled and selling snakes that they can't handle.

I can't speak much about the best ways to clean aggressive animal cages as I have only been snapped at a few times by my snakes when they were scared by noise while cleaning and during feeding. I've never been bit, but maybe that's because I'm careful. I always open the door to the enclosure slowly and speak to them to make sure they are awake and aware I'm going to be engaging them. If you're trying to be slow and cautious to not bother them, you might just startle them even worse when they realize what's up. So, I make sure they are aware of my presence and then I reach in and touch the animal in a non-threatening place, like an outer coil in the mid-section and see how they react. They usually recoil a bit and maybe give me a big exhale of the lungs, but I just keep a hold and move them around a little and they realize they're getting moved and submit without issue and I can pick them up. If I get any sort of a sharp response from the initial contact like really quickly fleeing for a hide, I'll just let them do that because they're telling me what they want. If I need to do maintenance, just block the hide exit while you clean and you're good to go.

Thanks heaps for this, i am sure it will come in handy if i choose to throw myself in the deep end so to speak. It is a big opportunity for me as these snakes are well bred and unless i went straight through the breeder they came from i doubt i would have this opportunity again considering the quality of them and where i live.
I just don't want to let the opportunity pass and regret it later on down the road.
It will also broaden my knowledge and experience which is very important to me

You have put my mind at ease by what you have written and made me feel better about it, thanks

 

[frogboy77]

Jrebelo,
What happened to sticking with short posts.....!

 

[user 29560]

Jrebelo,
What happened to sticking with short posts.....!

When did I say that?

 

[Elite_Reptiles]

Personally I think having an aggressive snake that has the looks, kept as display only is perfectly fine. The only thing I would think is a waste towards the animal (especially if it was a good looking male), is not using him in your breeding projects. I find that aggressive males make the best lovers... they get in, they get what they want and they get the job done (no offence ladies). Maybe others would like to comment on the female breeding response, as I don't have any aggressive females.

I find cleaning during the day (early morning preferable) the easiest and less intrusive on the animal. 8 times out of 10 they are either asleep or that dosile, they couldn't be bothered making a move to try and pin a tag on you... Clean of a night, and you will get the opposite response.

If it's a major clean that needs to be done, than look at hooking them out into a tub so it leaves you free to do what you want in their enclosures.

 

[Waterrat]

My snakes are placid but don't handle them unless it's necessary. I derive enormous pleasure from watching them "on display" and if I want to "play" with something, I choose animals that appreciate handing and return some affection. I think there is too much anthropomorphism in this hobby, but, each to their own. It has a lot to do with how you perceive snakes - pets or wildlife?

 

[PilbaraPythons]

I am with Waterrat on this one, I also primarily keep reptiles for the same reason

 

[Em1986]

Thanks so much guys for all the positive responses

I think the female is just as agressive as the male and the colour on them is absolutely stunning!!!

They would be amazing to breed with but being new to everything if i did get them i wouldn't be jumping straight in to breed them and they won't be bought just to breed them.

I have other snakes in mind that are very easily handled so these would literally be to look but not touch (very minimal handling when needed) which i am very fine with now. I guess i sort of didn't want to fit into a stereotype with them and didn't want to feel bad for choosing them just for looks.

Thanks so much again guys, i really appreciate it!

 

[SYNeR]

I like to be able to handle my animals. I couldn't just have a display animal.
That's just my preference, however. I have nothing against pure display animals -- just saying that it's not for me.
I see all my animals as pets and as such I like to be able to interact with them to varying degrees.

 

[Em1986]

I like to be able to handle my animals. I couldn't just have a display animal.
That's just my preference, however. I have nothing against pure display animals -- just saying that it's not for me.
I see all my animals as pets and as such I like to be able to interact with them to varying degrees.

I have my bearded dragons to handle and do have a couple of other snakes on my 'soon to get list' that are very tame also so it will be a mix of both i guess.
They will still be interacted with but to a much lesser extent and mainly through glass :lol:

I am more worried about the animal's safety rather than my own in this and would hate to handle them and cause stress or injury to them.

Thank you very much for your perspective as well

 

[Schnecke]

If I had a python that was too aggressive to enjoy (for what part of enjoyment I seek to own one for) then I would find a suitable home for it. There is nothing wrong with keeping a display animal or one you wish to handle, as long as their needs are met (it's like owning a horse and not riding it - horses don't "like" being ridden, they just tolerate it and become more comfortable with it) but if not riden and still looked after properly, they are extremely happy.

I would have to agree SYNeR, I'm the same - I haven't had a python for long, but for the last 7+ years have been around my brothers' Coastal enough to have a great deal of respect and appreciation for when an animal doesn't want to be touched or handled - you just leave them alone.

I think I read my python very well already and there has been times when I can clearly see that he doesn't want to be bothered by me and I leave him alone, sometimes for days. My partner (username: Centro) already has his Bredli seeking him out when he's allowed to explore, it's also the same with my brothers 7' Coastal, if he's allowed out on his own weight, he'll have a tiny explore, then look for the safety of my brother, so I feel handling it's not always just tolerated by them, but sometimes they may even seek us out if it suits them.

If I sit with my Jungle's Click Clack on the floor, sometimes within 15-20 minutes he's moved from his tube or perch to be as close as possible to the side of the CC that's near where I am (and he gets no warmth from this spot, as I'm not touching the side of the CC, so it makes me think that sometimes, just sometimes, they don't mind being around us. I may be completely delusional, but that's ok! If he's happy sitting there, I'm happy to believe it's because he wants to.

Further to this, If anyone other than my brother handles Hydra, he constantly moves and you need to move with him, but when my brother handles him, he is completely relaxed, finds a comfy position and chills (normally draped around my brothers neck.) So I certainly do think (from my brothers experience with his Coastal) that they do know who their "human" is. It's awesome to see, he finds my brothers face after he picks him up, tongue flicking, then goes into relax mode once he hears my brother speak, or move, so he certainly knows it's him. I was always of the opinion that snakes didn't 'bond" with anything, and I still believe that to an extent, but they certainly get used to their human and become more relaxed around them.

As long as an animal's needs are met, display animals and handled animals can be as happy as eachother and it's DEFINITELY not selfish to want a display python for just that reason alone. Go for it!

 

[Em1986]

Thanks heaps Schnecke

It also had me wondering with the homing of them issue, would they be better off with me that knows to give them space and look after them just the same as the rest of my (very small) collection or would they be better off sold to someone that is going to expect to handle them all the time and annoy the crap out of them and stress them out? (i'm not saying any of you guys do that but i'm sure some people out there probably don't respect their animals).

Also given the seriousness of this opportunity i doubt i will get the chance ever again without travelling/freighting/importing at the risk of being scammed. It is a local that has them and i trust him very much, i have learnt a lot from him and bought my bearded dragons off him, i can go see them whenever pretty much and have seen how clean his collection is and how well maintained they all are, i also saw both snakes the same day they had shed and know there was no shedding issues either. He is also close by if i have any issues and (hopefully) willing to help me if i need it.

 

[timantula]

well ive got 7 pythons atm..... and my water is well named kranky... just stand near his enc and he will have mutiple strikes at me, ive even had him leap out of his enc when i opened up for a feed. but i still get him out for a handle every now and then ive just gotta keeps my wits about me...but ill never get rid of him just because hes agressive

 

[GeckPhotographer]

I think it is more selfish to want a snake so you can 'baby it'. I am not against handling snakes. I simply mean that as long as you mean to care for the snake to the best of your ability and provide it with a great home then other reasons for keeping it don't so much matter.

 

[beeman]

My snakes are placid but don't handle them unless it's necessary. I derive enormous pleasure from watching them "on display" and if I want to "play" with something, I choose animals that appreciate handing and return some affection. I think there is too much anthropomorphism in this hobby, but, each to their own. It has a lot to do with how you perceive snakes - pets or wildlife?

I have a simular opinion

 

[timantula]

this is just a curious question... why dont some people like to handle there snakes.