Yesterdays bitter election result.

[ihaveherps]

Grim, theres no answer for that.....

 

[cris]

I can go on being ignored by cris all night, but can someone please tell me one reason heterosexual people would want kids that a homosexual person could not understand?

eh? explain the relevance?

 

[grimbeny]

It is relevant becaus, you said that all children with homosexual parents are just human pets. Why are kids to all heterosexual parents, not also pets?

 

[=bECS=]

It most certainly isnt, you were the one who came up with that idea.

You have missed my point, why is it that only homosexual couples who want to have kids is selfish?
There are plenty of heterosexual couples who have children for selfish reasons also, and they too can be likened to 'pets' as you put it.
So why is it that children being raised by homosexuals are 'human pets'

 

[jessb]

I dont get how that has any relevance. A gay couple cant have their own children as they dont produce the right gamates, that seems a logical arguement for it being unnatural. Dont lump me in with religous >insert word that wont get moderated<.

Again, how do you explain IVF? Shoudl straight couples without the right genetic material to create a healthy child be denied the right to have kids as well?

 

[Vat69]

Yes it is an opinion based on my personal ethics, im just curious as to which field i would study to find out that homsexual reproduction in humans is natural and goes along with my personal ethics. Although im quite guilty of hyping up or over exagerating my view to do a bit of fishing, im being quite serious on this.

I'd say something along the lines of human psycho-social studies. So something that mixes child development and sociology, but of course very specialised. You know I don't have course codes listed here to gurge for you.
But for personal interest I'm sure there are research papers out there discussing the development of children in same sex couples, if you're interested in potentially challenging your opinion.
I'm sure I've read (academic) information about children being raised by gay parents who develop into well-rounded individuals no different from children from heterosexual couples.

I know you're debating homosexuality as unnatural, but if you find that it's proven that the sexual preferences of parents have no negative impact on their children, does 'natural' matter?

I'm tired.

 

[cris]

You have missed my point, why is it that only homosexual couples who want to have kids is selfish?

OK to clear it up for you, I dont think kids should be brought up in an unnatural environment simply for their parent/s selfishness. Their sexual orientation is relevant only to the natural part of things, 2 sperm or 2 ova cant make a baby if it could somehow i wouldnt think they only had kids for selfish reasons, it would be a normal biological proccess. As I mentioned earlier there are gay ppl who have a very similar opinion on this issue and dont have kids because it isnt fair on them, especailly if they dont inherit a gay phenotype.

 

[=bECS=]

OK to clear it up for you, I dont think kids should be brought up in an unnatural environment simply for their parent/s selfishness. Their sexual orientation is relevant only to the natural part of things, 2 sperm or 2 ova cant make a baby if it could somehow i wouldnt think they only had kids for selfish reasons, it would be a normal biological proccess. As I mentioned earlier there are gay ppl who have a very similar opinion on this issue and dont have kids because it isnt fair on them, especailly if they dont inherit a gay phenotype.

OK so on that note, when a gay male and a lesbian female decide to have a child together (which can and does sometimes happen) and they share the care of said child, then the child has both a mother and a father, even though they are raised by gay couples.
By going by your argument, the child has a natural mother and father and is raised in an environment where both parents are present, then that is ok by you, is it not?

 

[cris]

Again, how do you explain IVF? Shoudl straight couples without the right genetic material to create a healthy child be denied the right to have kids as well?

No they shouldnt be allowed have kids by IVF, but i think they should be able to adopt if they can provide for all practical purposes normal ideal upbringing eg. a mum AND a dad. Humans are the first species that seems to see genetic desruction as a positive thing, i think we need to have much more respect for nature.

 

[notechistiger]

I dont get how that has any relevance. A gay couple cant have their own children as they dont produce the right gamates, that seems a logical arguement for it being unnatural. Dont lump me in with religous >insert word that wont get moderated<.

Im sure you could dig up referances to straight ppl engaing in bisexual behaviour(eg. spartans), but this isnt relevant either.

Can you explain how it isnt selfish to get a kid that cant have a mother and father?[/quote]

What right do you have to claim that the gay people out there are "selfish"? I can't remember if it's been said before or not, but how did you actually come up with your opinion? What do you base it on?

A child isn't going to be homosexual because his/her parents are. If that were true, homosexual people wouldn't exist because they're raised by heterosexuals. If anything, the children are going to be raised as tolerant people.

Quote for truth. I certainly believe this.

I can go on being ignored by cris all night, but can someone please tell me one reason heterosexual people would want kids that a homosexual person could not understand?

In my opinion, none at all, grimbeny.

There isnt much point trying to explain such things to such narrow minded ppl.

That's the most narrow minded comment in this entire thread. Have you considered all sides without being biased? It certainly doesn't sound like you have.

 

[Crystal..Discus]

*Le Sigh*

I've been studying the pathological behaviours of children raised under gay parents and all I can say is that the only real difference is that a child grows up slightly more tolerant of a generation of 'same sex' parents. There is no psychological 'trauma' - as some might claim - nor is there any repercussions when it comes to a child's social development. The only thing that DOES hinder them is when people decide to turn their children against these poor kids who don't deserve it. They become the target of abuse that is only spawned from an elder's P.O.V.

We are born the way we are, and if people can't accept that - fine. Just don't take it out of a generation of children who will probably grow up and one day shun our generation for our opposition towards gay parents.

 

[cris]

OK so on that note, when a gay male and a lesbian female decide to have a child together (which can and does sometimes happen) and they share the care of said child, then the child has both a mother and a father, even though they are raised by gay couples.
By going by your argument, the child has a natural mother and father and is raised in an environment where both parents are present, then that is ok by you, is it not?

I dont believe that is natural or ideal. If you havnt got what im talking about yet you never will. IMO if their genes were supposed to be passed on they should have a biological drive to do it properly. If nature didnt select against homosexuality humans would have died out long ago. Now it seems humans do everything to fight against any sort of natural selection, this is one example. Ethics aside this is very bad for humans and the whole world.


Notechistiger, you are always good for a laugh thanks :lol:

 

[Crystal..Discus]

Now it seems humans do everything to fight against any sort of natural selection, this is one example. Ethics aside this is very bad for humans and the whole world.

That made me giggle. Humans have been gay from the very beginning of time - it's just that the Catholic Churches have denied it for all this time, hiding behind teachings that were enforced through violence and ignorance.

....In fact, isn't making a priest swear an oath to be abstinent going against natural selection and human nature?

 

[Recharge]

It is mainly ethical, im not suggesting they would abuse children(as i know some idiots cant tell the differance between gays and pedos). It just spits in the face of nature and is a completely selfish act. I dont believe kids should be intentionally brought into the world without a natural family. I have actually heard gay ppl say this on debates on the issue so dont try and make out like there is anything more to it. Its selfish and i feel sorry for kids brought up in such an environment, the fact that other ppl shouldnt have kids is completely irrelevant.

You may think my comment is low, but nowhere near as bad as selfishly choosing to have a kid in a completely unnatural environment IMO.

spits in the face of nature? you mean the same nature that has homosexuals within it's system? lol you might want to carefully rethink your logic there

completely selfish? oh noes! so unlike the rest of humanity eh? again, illogical

dont believe kids should be intentionally brought into the world without a natural family

then you better start taking kids from over 50% of the population right now, single parents everywhere..

exactly why do you feel sorry for children who are loved and cherished and cared for (usually far better than any low social economic areas ie:bogans)
what? they might get teased or something? (unlike 99% of ALL children)
once again, an illogical ill thought out stance here.

unnatural environment? ahh it is too laugh, if it lies within nature, and it does ocross MANY species, then it is inherently natural.

bing, bang, boom, want to try again? you may not believe it's natural, but it's there, it's all around us, it's totally natural, and if just because they can't reproduce (which they can quite easily with surrogates or just sleeping with a random) then your arguement is moot, because there are ways around it.

oh and chris, read any of the science thats been done recently on cloning?
while not mature yet, it's entirely possible to create a human from an egg alone now
males aren't needed at all soon

to be born homosexual is one thing, to be brought up to believe that it is normal (the human race wouldnt exist if it was)

ihaveherps
incorrect, within the bounds of the human species, it has always existed and yet here we are..

Anyone who believes that a child isn't a sponge that soaks up the environment they are brought up in is a fool

omg... so much could be said on this...
you could argue that your own entire belief structure could be wrong, yet you argue it?

 

[wiz-fiz]

i for one think it's about damned time somebody had the balls to stand up against the gays. i don't wanna make waves, but 'marriage' as defined by the Bible is between a 'Man and a Woman under God'.

prop 8 is a good sign that the world can still heal itself of these wicked sinners. some may say faith is ignorance, but they'll be the first to burn in the sodomitic fires of hell.

lets not bring religoin into this.

cos I don't want to start on how faulty religoins are, and it's not my duty to tll you wheather it's true or not. so please leave religion out of this.


Will

 

[LullabyLizard]

i for one think it's about damned time somebody had the balls to stand up against the gays. i don't wanna make waves, but 'marriage' as defined by the Bible is between a 'Man and a Woman under God'.

prop 8 is a good sign that the world can still heal itself of these wicked sinners. some may say faith is ignorance, but they'll be the first to burn in the sodomitic fires of hell.

........ ummm....... Ok........ :shock:

 

[Hetty]

There isnt much point trying to explain such things to such narrow minded ppl.

:lol:

That was a joke, right?

 

[Sturdy]

*bangs head on table*

i dont see why people get so passionate about this subject..... What right do WE have to say a gay couple cant get married or have kids............

also for the record.... what right does the bible have to say gay couples cant not get married.


anwser those questions..... what Right! do we have.

 

[=bECS=]

I dont believe that is natural or ideal. If you havnt got what im talking about yet you never will. IMO if their genes were supposed to be passed on they should have a biological drive to do it properly. If nature didnt select against homosexuality humans would have died out long ago. Now it seems humans do everything to fight against any sort of natural selection, this is one example. Ethics aside this is very bad for humans and the whole world.


Notechistiger, you are always good for a laugh thanks :lol:

You see, i do get what you are trying to argue, my point is that there are various holes in your argument.
First you argue its selfish because they cant re-produce full stop, this was your argument for being against IVF also.
You said

Their sexual orientation is relevant only to the natural part of things

So i give you an example where gay people can re-produce, and your argument is that its not natural or ideal.
Well the child is conceived naturally, and the child is being raised by both a mother and a father which was another of your criteria for not being selfish.
Unfortunately we dont live in an ideal world, and what one person sees as natural and right, another will not.
That IS human nature, otherwise why would we have debated this subject for so many pages now

AND you still seem to be side stepping peoples various questions as to why they would be deemed 'human pets' and why then are all children are not deemed 'human pets' ?

You make it sound like they want to go down to the local shops, buy a child, keep it in the laundry with a bowl of water and a piece of string to entertain it and interact with it when it suits them!

 

[waruikazi]

The thing i just don't get is...

The US and Australia have very very clear laws that state discrimination is illegal. By not allowing someone to do something purely on their sexual orientation is discriminatory and against the law.

Ergo some sex couples have as much right to marry and have children as hetero couples.

I can not believe that in this day and age there are still people and systems that actively discriminate against an entire group of our society. I am really disgusted to be part of that society.