Your thoughts on wild caught snake breeding programs

[thomasssss]

I think you'll find that genetics works in fundamentally the same way across most species.

im no genetics wizz and wont pretend to be , its just that when you said "There need to be at least some external sources for keeping new genetic profiles coming into the captive bred lines, or there will be a repetition of the horror of kennel club breeding specifications for reptiles as well"

it made me think that you where referring to inbreeding of reptile and that we need to keep out sourcing the genetics to stop bad side effects like we have seen in dogs in the past

this isnt anywhere near as big a problem in reptiles as it is dogs ( seems to be the general agreement anyway) , thats all i was saying

 

[Bluetongue1]

There are several discrete issues involved here...

1. Sustainable yield: From a population that is common, removal of one adult individual will have zero long term effect. However, from a population that is rare and endangered, removal of one adult individual could have a significant detrimental effect on that population.
2. Parasite loads: Many wild reptiles carry a large parasite burden and obviously one does not want these transferred to existing captive stock. Removal needs to be step-wise or the sheer mass of dead bodies releasing chemicals as they break down can result in toxic shock syndrome and death of the animal.
3. Stress: Wild-caught animals undergo considerable stress before adjusting to captive conditions. How quickly they adjust and learn to accept captive conditions is very much dependent on the skills of the keeper.
4. Legality: The laws exist for a reason. Should they be broken?
5. Release of Wild-caught Animals: Any reptile from the wild that has come in even near contact with captive reptiles, should not be released back into the wild. There is the real possibility, no matter how slight, that they may carry an exotic disease which can then infect wild populations.

So forget about the just going collect its genetic material and then let go scenario. Its either collect and keep or don’t collect.

If this is truly an unusual individual within the population then its odds on that its unique genetic makeup will not be maintained beyond one generation. While it is clearly illegal for most people to do so, I can readily understand why someone would do for an abundant species with a clear conscience. It they do not have the expertise required to adjust the species to captive conditions and to breed it then capture is not option in my book. So I guess for me it comes down to knowledge and capabilities, exercised ethically, rather than legalities.

Blue

 

[yommy]

like this you mean red??

longqi does this animal also have orange on tail??? Saw something very similar in the jungle of Malaysia many many years ago and never could identify it, must try an dig up the polaroid pic of it

 

[longqi]

For me this was the holy grail in Borneo
red headed krait, bungarus flaviceps, tadung engang
on our last night it casually dropped by for a visit
This one is a big one and it found us a long way up river from where any had been seen before
Also get blue malayan corals in Borneo and Malaysia
Both are gorgeous
both are deadly
both have red tails
So your snake may have been either of these

have an album in bali reptile rescue about borneo trip tonight or tomorrow
too hard to put too many pics here
but will be worth a look

 

[yommy]

Yeah it was the Red headed krait. It was an amazing animal in the flesh

 

[Goppy78]

Personally, would take as many pics as I could, record the location I found it, then contact someone local that has a capture license, make a contract with them stating that I get 1 or 2 hatchlings that have the same trait, and take them back to the location and help try and locate the specimen. ATM don't have the experience to try to establish the trait myself, so would leave it up to someone better qualified. Would want the hatchies not to try and make money off, but purely for the recognition of discovering. Would also want to be recognized for finding the first specimen. The idea of trying to make a quick buck off it doesn't appeal, the breeders who put the time, effort and money into developing the gene deserve to be rewarded for the work put in, not the punter who accidentally stumbles across it. I'm sure a lot will disagree, or say I'm being high and mighty, and would act differently if actually in that situation, but the only thing that can't be taken away from you is your word, and I stand by mine. Anyway chances are you won't be able to locate it again.

And sorry about the long winded post.

 

[TrueBlue]

Same as wokka said.

 

[Brownbird]

The difference is that the original Albino Darwins were collected legally

You must have read a different version of the story than I did....
Just because something is legal does not necesarily make it right, conversly the State declaring something illegal does not mean it is inherently wrong.

 

[Gruni]

When you look at recent breeding that is how the Albino Darwin hit the market after a wild specimen was caught at someone's house and the authorities intervened. It's also happening under controled circumstances to preserve endangered species and undercut the poaching market.

BUT... that is a long step away from your original question. If I found one in the bush that was truely special I'd get a photo and try to document its location as best I can. I certainly wouldn't catch it or take it for breeding or anything. I might, however, be inclined to look into it further with some herping experts eg one of the museums or universities.

 

[Tesla]

Legal and illegal collection, what's really the difference? Nothing except paperwork and a little kickback to the authorities in that state.
If I was to find something rare I would take a photo, put it in my own personal album and tell absolutely nobody what I saw or where I found it.

 

[Jacknife]

Catch it, eat it.
When you're out in the wild it's survival of the fittest and as a general rule genetic anomalies stick out like dog's bollocks and are quickly taken out. If I were you I'd just follow the laws of nature...

 

[chimerapro]

Wasn't the albino scrubby caught illegally? If it wasn't PK would it be as accepted?

 

[GeckoJosh]

We can all point out the ironies and contradictions until the cows come home, or we could just enjoy the fact we have a great range of captive bred reptiles and leave the rest for a PETA convention