My First Removal

[snakehandler]

They all like to keep you on your toes!

 

[eracer]

This has been an interesting thread to read. The way we get fired up about what we do and how we do it is a credit to our passion. Each to his own I say: just stay away from the pointy end.

When teaching venomous snake relocation courses in WA we dont/arent allowed to teach people to tail. Personally, although I am super pro tailing, I basically teach my trainees hook and bag and encourage them to develop their skill with tailing over time.

This is a win win as I dont have the liability of putting the trainee in direct physical contact with the snake, the trainee gets the basics, and then the trainee can decide if he or she wants to further develop their skills.

Only as recently as two weeks ago I took three of my old trainees (did their course early last year and have done a full season of relocs) to a reptile park to do some cleaning and watched them develop their tailing skills in a 'safer' environment. It was mega rewarding.

INTERESTING that the one thing noone has mentioned here is that no matter what technique you are using, if you cant get the snake in bag safely without putting yourself in danger, sometimes you may just have to choose to walk away. It does not happen often but it can happen. Better to back off from one reloc so you survive to do another 10.

 

[Jackson]

Mate even the most experienced catchers will not waste the time trying to hook Browns, specially up here in Brisbane, Brown + 40 degree day = put ya hooks away LOL but I take my hat off too you for having a go..

Trigger first up WOW a tough start for a first timer, Browns are quick as a flash! I have caught about 6 now and they are a handful I only ever use a hook & bag as like many others beleive tongs to be prone to injure. Be wary & make sure you wear leg protection & follow SMART
SafeBody,clothes & area
Mentally alert, focused & cautious
Always expect the unexpected
Risk management-first aid & communication
Training & tools -suitable for the job
No alcohol or drugs at anytime prior to catching you need to be 100% alert

Browns are a challenge just by themselves so remember if it doesn't feel right don't be afraid to back out, better to be safe than tagged!!!

 

[snakehandler]

Eracer, its interesting to note that the issue of tailing in WA is NOT legislated or part of the regulations, it is the preference of the DEC there, we have been in discussion with them in relation to this as not being taught all relevant safe techniques is not teaching best practice. In many cases staff from mines in WA that have transferred to sites in other states cannot get onto the relocation list due to a lack of complete training, we have had many very competent people with hooks and tongs have to do a course to learn to tail before they can catch anything on sites in QLD for example (company policies not government regulations). Also we were informed by DEC that people must be taught to use a hook and tongs at the same time in WA, so how does one hold the catch bag? You would need to work as a pair....doesnt this also increase risks??

A big thing we always teach, if you cannot do the job walk away and contact someone who can, some days you are just not up to it and your family must always come first...think of how they would react should you be bitten!!

 

[-Peter]

A big thing we always teach, if you cannot do the job walk away and contact someone who can, some days you are just not up to it and your family must always come first...think of how they would react should you be bitten!!

Ditto, we stress this, if you dont feel you control the show then back away and reassess. It may mean walking away. We also re enforce that you are on your own and that you cannot rely on the public to assist you if you are bitten or injured, it could be just you.

 

[snakehandler]

Peter is interesting to note though that in WA with the technique of tongs and hooks you are either working with someone or placing the snake into a bin or similar receptacle.....hopefully this means the other person is able to provide the service if you cannot!

 

[eracer]

Yeah, I can dig out the most recent communication or directive from DEC but it is there in black and white. They had a massive shake down over here recently and I was one of a very very very select few that did not lose their licence or have to do anything differently. In my training program it specifically says I dont teach tailing. I love it but I dont teach it.

 

[redbellybite]

I do what ever the situation at hand requires ,sometimes hook up and bag ,some times tailing is OK ...NEVER TONGS I HATE THEM ....and refuse to even enter using them ever ...been doing it now for 6 years ..even on heated up 35-40degree days in QLD with EASTERN BROWNS ...You have to know how to read the situation cause it can turn in a second and you need the common sense and skill to be able to change tactics and keep ya wits about yourself ...some people even though they have the paper work to say they are a catcher shouldnt be an active one in my books..

 

[$NaKe PiMp]

thats all a snake needs ,a scared newby with a hook and tongs to drag it from its hiding place and half crush its ribcage in the process to dry and dump it in a bag held be some equally incompetent snake handler.
Also do they think all snakes are sitting in the middle of an open field with no obstructions around ,waiting to be caught??

 

[snakehandler]

If a person has been trained properly then they will not do damage with the right equipment and I am sure that they companies in WA training staff would not pass a person unless they could catch a snake and cause no harm. RBB as much as you hate tongs, unless you can use them properly in some places they will not let you get a permit, its a fact of life. We have been discussing with DEC in WA why the ban on tailing, they say because of the potential harm to the snake as well as the chance it could turn and bite.....I asked them what of the potential harm with tonging, pinning and other techniques. All techniques whether you like them all not have an inherent risk to both the animal and the handler if not done properly......its a fact of life!

 

[garthy]

You can only tail when you can find the tail, if it's backed itself into a corner there's little chance of finding it. Then weird things can happen even if you do find the tail, i was once trying to get a grip on a gwardar that was in shed, first the shed started coming off and it was slipping out of my hands, than all the oil from under the skin made things really difficult for me.

This is the absolute truth!!! Not once in the ven handling (snake catching) course I completed were we faced with a cornered snake, it was all open country and great fun tailing.

To be perfectly honest, I have only tailed two snakes on hundreds of catches. the rest have been pinned, hooked, bagged or hooked and bagged. I have often found that deliberately cutting off a snakes escape route and then offering a nice dark hole (the bag) I have had to do very little handling of late.

 

[-Peter]

Garthy, I would take a punt that the snakes that take a dive at the hidy hole of your bag a predominately browns?
This is the outcome of a technique introduced by one of our more experienced members at our last course whereby browns are bagged without tailing, tongs or pinning.

 

[Wookie]

Seems a bit archaic refusing to use a useful tool IMO. If they are used correctly, they don't harm the snake. Pretty sure you can hurt them pinning (if done incorrectly) but nobody has spoken a word against that?

 

[waruikazi]

Your browns are much easier than mine lol!

Garthy, I would take a punt that the snakes that take a dive at the hidy hole of your bag a predominately browns?
This is the outcome of a technique introduced by one of our more experienced members at our last course whereby browns are bagged without tailing, tongs or pinning.

 

[cement]

A good chippy can get great results regardless of the tools, because after enough experience your working by the feel, not by the book.

 

[-Peter]

Your browns are much easier than mine lol!

I was amazed with this. Out of the ten browns we had only one wouldn't respond in the same manner and on later inspection it was noted it had a head injury.

 

[Snake Catcher Victoria]

These pieces of equipment are used by professional herpetologists such as Dr. Bryan Fry, Mark O'Shea, Donald Schultz, Dr. Wolfgang Wuster and Dr. Sean Bush, given that snakes are their livelihood they consider animal welfare in actions that they take.

The thing is, the people you have mentioned have many years of experience and are knowledgable enough to know when to ease the pressure on the backbreakers (tongs) as the snake tries to get away,so the snake can remain uninjured.
In the hands of a novice with limited experience and a days training, who has just gotten a relocaters licence so he can make money, well, i pity the snakes that are caught by these guys as their days are surely numbered.
Baz

 

[snake79]

Good on ya mate i find when i catch snakes everyone is different and it's not something that can be taught have to have a feel for it and a passion for wanting to save the snakes.My method is simply this if it is a black snake of some kind i will use the hook and tailing method and sometimes just tail it but if it's a brown/taipan or another type of elapid that can come up their body fast i'll just pin it behind the head or 2thirds down it's body and soz to say this folks use my tongs.I've got them padded so they wont hurt the snake thanks to david's advice when i first started out back in dalby he's from reedys reptiles up in katherine NT.I've never had a problem doing it this way,but my first callout of an eastern brown all i had was my hook and catching bag that was it managed to coaxe it into the bag with the hook after it struck at me 5times lol.But yeah good luck hey glad we have another snake catcher out there saving the wildlife

 

[damian83]

tongs are barbaric if you have no idea how to use them, I don’t use tongs when I catch snakes nor do I use a hook either…I prefer the pinning down and grabbing behind the head method. Good on you trigger considering the snake you were up against.

P.S bugger using a hook with a nasty brown snake it would end up around your ears before you knew it...lol

i was taught that pinning behind the head and grab behind the jaws too
i only did a small sorta course at uni, not even sure why, maybe ecology
but it was definatly a safer way to pick up brown trees and small red bellies etc

 

[Tanzen]

Every snake catch is case by case. it's not the tools but the handler behind them. I don't use them until I have to as I prefer not to stress the snake further. I don't believe these courses are adequate for the real world of snake catching, so well done on bagging the snakes. I've been relocating 20yrs on Brisbanes West and South side. Currently where I live every 2nd or 3rd call is an eastern brown.