Awkward Pythons

Discussion in 'Herp Help' started by MissRain, Apr 8, 2014.

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  1. MissRain

    MissRain New Member

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    I recently bought two juvenile coastal carpet pythons to become a breeding pair when they become old enough. Apparently coastal carpet pythons love branches and trees, but at the moment they fall off of the branches in their enclosure. As it is not high off the ground they don't hurt themselves, but when I hold them they struggle to grasp on and end up falling and freaking out when they loose grip. Is this just because they are young and still learning or not?

    They are also eating well and have a basking area at a constant 31.5 degrees (the rest of the enclosure approximately 30 degrees). Any feedback would be appreciated :)
     
  2. Beans

    Beans Guest

    Mmmm they should be born with the instinct to hold on o.o about your Temps they seem good but the they need a cooler end. 30 degrees is too warm for a cool end. So just lower it to about 25 so they can regulate their body temperature

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  3. Chris82

    Chris82 Active Member

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    Pretty much most pythons are highly arboreal and if they aren't then they're generally good climbers anyway. I'd be a little worried if your coastals can't climb without falling off. Might be worth a vet trip. Not worth speculating on what it may or may not be.
     
  4. Forget the vet trip - what's a vet going to tell you? It sounds to me as though the animals are stressed and therefore uncoordinated when you place them on the branches. Just leave them be and they'll be fine. Very small Carpets are not arboreal anyway - every Kookaburra in Australia would love it if they were. It's not until they're too big to be preyed upon that they take to the trees., so a lack of interest in climbing is natural for smaller Carpets.

    Jamie
     
  5. zulu

    zulu Very Well-Known Member

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    Juvenile carpets onley need a small clik clak on mild heat one end so they feel secure. Small reptiles and even big ones tend to hide in captivity and also in the wild .The breeder is usually the best to advise on maintenance .
     
  6. Ramy

    Ramy Active Member

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    If stress is the problem (and Jamie knows his stuff), your high range of temperatures is probably a contributing factor. Provide a cooler spot for those snakes! I agree with Beans, drop it down to 25 atleast, you can easily go lower. I find it easier to provide a temperature gradient in a larger enclosure, however as Zulu says they like the small secure space when they're little.
     
  7. MissRain

    MissRain New Member

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    Thank you for all the advice everyone :) Now have a cooler end of the tank sitting at 26. I think they may have still been stressed from moving them when we got them, which could explain things. They seem to be a lot calmer and hold on more today. As they are only in a small enclosure, I've just moved their basking rock so that there are cooler spots in their enclosure, so that there is more of a temperature difference at each end. I think they are getting better each day but yea that may have been due to being stressed in a new environment.

    How low of a temperature can you go? I thought that they shouldn't get below 25 on the cooler end, or are they tougher than that?
     
  8. Beans

    Beans Guest

    They are pretty tough, I mean they can survive winters but you don't wanna do that to them. Just leave it at 25 if it goes a degree over or lower thats fine but 25 is the benchmark of where it should be. Naturally it will drop alot during the night cause theres no heat over that side, Mines sitting at 23. But some nights itss at 21.

    So yeah. Leave it at 25 :) Glad they are doing better today
     
  9. Ramy

    Ramy Active Member

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    My pythons get a 30+ basking spot, and ambient temperature at the other end. In winter, that can get below 10 degrees. In summer, it's generally between to 18-24. They know what they want - if it's too cold, they'll stay nearer the heat. I turn the heat off at night, but I also make sure they can warm their whole body at the basking site while it's on.

    For young pythons, however, they don't have as much body mass to hold heat. For the first year or so it's best to just keep the heat on 24/7, and keep the temperature from dropping below 20-ish. There's no exact number, it won't hurt to have the occasional cold night.
     
  10. Senator358

    Senator358 Well-Known Member

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    Are you keeping them in the same enclosure??
     
  11. MissRain

    MissRain New Member

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    Yes but we separate them when feeding.
     
  12. Don't worry about the cool end temps - the snake will pick the spot which suits it best. You don't need to manage the cool end at all. Sometimes they can go down the the cool/cold end for days at a time and get quite cold, but as long as they have access to heat when they want it they'll be fine.

    Jamie
     
  13. bdav70

    bdav70 Guest

    Thanks this is exactly the sort of advice I was looking for with my hatchie!


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  14. Senator358

    Senator358 Well-Known Member

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    The stress could be caused by being kept together. Do they have separate hides to access the hot and cold ends? I would personally separate them as its never good to keep them together especially as hatchies.
     
  15. MissRain

    MissRain New Member

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    Yes they have two hides, one at each end but they often sleep in the same one. Do you know why it is bad as hatchlings or is it just because of the stress? They have gotten a lot better since last week as well :)
     
  16. andynic07

    andynic07 Very Well-Known Member

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    They have the possibility of eating each other.
     
  17. ThatGuy

    ThatGuy Not so new Member

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    remember that in the wild snakes are generally solitary creatures. They might cross paths at times or during mating seasons but keeping them together in the same small enclosure increases the likely hood of them fighting and injuring/killing/eating one another. For short periods of time I don't think (confirmation please) it would be a problem but as a permanent or long term solution it should be avoided for best results.
     
  18. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 Guest

    The average preferred body temperature (PBT) for carpets is around 29[SUP]o[/SUP]C. It is important to realise that the PBT varies according to what is happening with the snake. When it has eaten and its metabolism is actively trying to the meal, it will deliberately seek a higher body temperature to facilitate that. In the cooler months when food is not readily available, a snake will often choose a reduced body temperature to conserve energy otherwise required to maintain the higher activity of cells at a higher body temperature.

    So how does this translate into what is a desirable temperature range? A good rule of thumb is about 4 - 5[SUP]o[/SUP]C either side, which also takes into account the basking temperature.


    • Desired minimum end temperature about 25[SUP]o[/SUP]C.
    • Desired maximum end temperature about 30[SUP]o[/SUP]C.
    • Desired basking point temperature about 34[SUP]o[/SUP]C.
    • Hide positioned at the cool end.
    • Hide positioned at the average PBT of 29[SUP]o[/SUP]C.

    It sounds like your snakes are likely still under one year in age. As such, they do not need quite the same range in temperatures. Their food items are smaller, with means they have a larger surface area to volume, which allows digestion to happen more quickly. At the same time there is usually less hair and thinner skin which also facilitate quicker digestion. Therefore the higher basking temperatures are not critical during this period.


    Hides should be small and cosy. The long thin body shape of snakes gives them a very high surface area compared to their volume. As they do not have an insulating layer of fur, feathers or fat, heat is readily absorbed or lost by such a shape. When a snake has finished basking, it wants to conserve the heat it has absorbed. So it will coil up in a ball, which presents the lowest surface compared to volume, thereby reducing the rate of heat loss. If it can then find a tight hidey-hole that insulates it against heat loss and does have a lot of free air movement to remove heat, then it is able to retain the heat for longer. This I suspect is the reason both snakes are ocupying the same hide – a more desirable temperature and they are helping each other to reduce heat loss.


    Blue


     
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