Fuscus
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Marsh snake Hemiaspia signata
How embarrassment
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Fuscus
Almost Legendary
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Fuscus
Homo sapians stupidus
Homo sapians stupidus
Fuscus
Almost Legendary
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Fuscus again
Homo sapians stupidus
Later that day - note the wires
Homo sapians stupidus
Later that day - note the wires
Fuscus
Almost Legendary
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2003
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- 7,897
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This occurred at Springbrook near the canyon lookout while I was attempting to photograph the snake. I was handling the positively identified snake in an attempt to reposition the animal; it seemed to be quite placid but did warn me by a couple of closed mouth strikes before the actual chew. The clinical symptoms initially consisted of very minor swelling and minor pain around the site. There appear to be three envenomation points.
The symptoms seemed to subside after about fifteen minutes. During this time I returned to the car and looked up the snake species in "A complete guide to reptiles of Australia"? by Swan and Wilson. The notes for the genus state "Bites from large individuals may cause severe symptoms" and as the biter was a small animal I just thought I could tough it, put a band aid over the bite and recommenced my walk. I've awarded myself ten out of ten for bravado but negative fifty for stupidity with a ten- percent bonus for procrastination. Make that negative fifty-five.
About half an hour from the bite the swelling got much worse and, more worryingly, there was pain under the armpit. While I did not consider myself in danger, the armpit pain indicated that not only had I been envenomated (duh) but also the venom effects were not strictly localized and perhaps I should take this more seriously. I placed a pressure bandage over the limb and went back to the car. By this time the swelling as much worse, the armpit as about the same (perhaps just a bit more smelly) but the local pain was spreading. It seemed that as the swelling spread over a tendon then that tendon would complain. The arm was very tender and I preferred not to move it. As the symptoms were greater than I anticipated, a decision was made to seek medical advice and I drove down to Robina hospital, about 15 minutes away. Strictly speaking, medical attention was properly not required but I decided to be cautious, as a bad reaction seemed a distinct possibility.
The drive was calm and uneventful and totally unlike that stupid car ad. The arm was tender to the touch and gear changing was difficult due to the fact that the entire hand was now very tender and that gear changing in that heap has never been easy.
At Robina hospital I explained the situation and was checked by four nurses, two doctors and a security guard (who just kept shaking his head). Two additional pressure bandages were placed over the arm (My initial attempt was deemed inadequate). The doctors were taking this more seriously than I did, I suffered the first of many vampire attacks (blood sample taken) and question session (in situations like this you get asked the same questions repeatedly) and as Robina lacked an emergency ward I was transferred to Southport Hospital via ambulance.
On arrival I was hooked up to a machine, the blood sample was sent to the lab and a swab was taken of the bite site. I should point out at this point that not only had I photos of the snake but also had the Swan and Wilson book with me. People checked me every four or five minutes and the doctors were amazed that I had documented the entire incident. I even helped one doctor download some of the photos so he could do a PowerPoint presentation for the other doctors.
As this point the results from the swab came back and the indicated that the biter was a tiger snake, which was slightly disconcerting. Of course the CSL venom test only indicates which anti-venom to use and will only return one of six results - negative, brown, black, taipan, death adder or tiger. So if tiger came back then the doctors should use tiger anti-venom if required, it does not identify the species of the animal.
Tiger venom is anti-coagulant, the previous blood sample indicated that my "coaggs" was normal but caution was called for and a second vampire attack was performed. Two test are made per sample, they check that the coagulant properties of the blood remain OK, it took half an hour for the first result to come back and another half hour for the second to return. Both were OK.
It was then decided to remove the pressure bandage. For the next ten minutes I was observed by two doctors and two nurses then kept under constant observation by two nurses for the next hour. One of the nurses was very attractive, I wasn't that sick. Then that thirsty vampire returned just in case the pressure bandage removed released any venom.
Tests came back negative again (this is getting boring) and I was moved to the observation ward for four hours until yet another visit by that rotten vampire.
About his time emergency was getting busy, mainly with young people who ODed on alcohol (including one who had to be revived), and aside from being fed I was left alone except for periodic checks by an orderly. After another couple of hours a doctor told me my "coaggs" are OK and gave me the choice of "should I stay or should I go". I left; I couldn't remain relaxed and comfortable in the emergency ward.
The swelling remained for two days, just a little remains now on day three. The tendons on the back of the hand remain tender and the hand and forearm remains pressure sensitive.
I'm still fifty-fifty on if the hospital trip was required, but was the safer route especially as I hadn?t been envenomated by this species (or any hot (tepid, bathwater ?) species) before. In hindsight it was very silly to attempt to continue the bush walk. But this incident is not going to stop me from herping again and I did get some shots of a small-eye snake.
And to answer the question that must be burning in all your enquiring minds ? the snake was released unharmed.
Fuscus
October 26 2005
The symptoms seemed to subside after about fifteen minutes. During this time I returned to the car and looked up the snake species in "A complete guide to reptiles of Australia"? by Swan and Wilson. The notes for the genus state "Bites from large individuals may cause severe symptoms" and as the biter was a small animal I just thought I could tough it, put a band aid over the bite and recommenced my walk. I've awarded myself ten out of ten for bravado but negative fifty for stupidity with a ten- percent bonus for procrastination. Make that negative fifty-five.
About half an hour from the bite the swelling got much worse and, more worryingly, there was pain under the armpit. While I did not consider myself in danger, the armpit pain indicated that not only had I been envenomated (duh) but also the venom effects were not strictly localized and perhaps I should take this more seriously. I placed a pressure bandage over the limb and went back to the car. By this time the swelling as much worse, the armpit as about the same (perhaps just a bit more smelly) but the local pain was spreading. It seemed that as the swelling spread over a tendon then that tendon would complain. The arm was very tender and I preferred not to move it. As the symptoms were greater than I anticipated, a decision was made to seek medical advice and I drove down to Robina hospital, about 15 minutes away. Strictly speaking, medical attention was properly not required but I decided to be cautious, as a bad reaction seemed a distinct possibility.
The drive was calm and uneventful and totally unlike that stupid car ad. The arm was tender to the touch and gear changing was difficult due to the fact that the entire hand was now very tender and that gear changing in that heap has never been easy.
At Robina hospital I explained the situation and was checked by four nurses, two doctors and a security guard (who just kept shaking his head). Two additional pressure bandages were placed over the arm (My initial attempt was deemed inadequate). The doctors were taking this more seriously than I did, I suffered the first of many vampire attacks (blood sample taken) and question session (in situations like this you get asked the same questions repeatedly) and as Robina lacked an emergency ward I was transferred to Southport Hospital via ambulance.
On arrival I was hooked up to a machine, the blood sample was sent to the lab and a swab was taken of the bite site. I should point out at this point that not only had I photos of the snake but also had the Swan and Wilson book with me. People checked me every four or five minutes and the doctors were amazed that I had documented the entire incident. I even helped one doctor download some of the photos so he could do a PowerPoint presentation for the other doctors.
As this point the results from the swab came back and the indicated that the biter was a tiger snake, which was slightly disconcerting. Of course the CSL venom test only indicates which anti-venom to use and will only return one of six results - negative, brown, black, taipan, death adder or tiger. So if tiger came back then the doctors should use tiger anti-venom if required, it does not identify the species of the animal.
Tiger venom is anti-coagulant, the previous blood sample indicated that my "coaggs" was normal but caution was called for and a second vampire attack was performed. Two test are made per sample, they check that the coagulant properties of the blood remain OK, it took half an hour for the first result to come back and another half hour for the second to return. Both were OK.
It was then decided to remove the pressure bandage. For the next ten minutes I was observed by two doctors and two nurses then kept under constant observation by two nurses for the next hour. One of the nurses was very attractive, I wasn't that sick. Then that thirsty vampire returned just in case the pressure bandage removed released any venom.
Tests came back negative again (this is getting boring) and I was moved to the observation ward for four hours until yet another visit by that rotten vampire.
About his time emergency was getting busy, mainly with young people who ODed on alcohol (including one who had to be revived), and aside from being fed I was left alone except for periodic checks by an orderly. After another couple of hours a doctor told me my "coaggs" are OK and gave me the choice of "should I stay or should I go". I left; I couldn't remain relaxed and comfortable in the emergency ward.
The swelling remained for two days, just a little remains now on day three. The tendons on the back of the hand remain tender and the hand and forearm remains pressure sensitive.
I'm still fifty-fifty on if the hospital trip was required, but was the safer route especially as I hadn?t been envenomated by this species (or any hot (tepid, bathwater ?) species) before. In hindsight it was very silly to attempt to continue the bush walk. But this incident is not going to stop me from herping again and I did get some shots of a small-eye snake.
And to answer the question that must be burning in all your enquiring minds ? the snake was released unharmed.
Fuscus
October 26 2005
foxysnake
Well-Known Member
Wow Fuscus you're quite the authour - great story and pics. Hope your arm is back to normal soon. However I have to say I love the pic of the marsh snake, the gold on the side of its head is just great in that photo.
re How
Very interesting fuscus,toxicity of venom can vary between populations of snakes,my friend was bitten by a small eyed snake at coffs harbour in 72 and i told him not to worry and his hand was swollen and eventualoly it went to the limph nodes under the arm.The smalleyed snakes around sydney dont appear to be as bad,judging from the bites ive seen but i would regard them now as potentially dangerous as apparently someone died from a smalleyed bite on the north coast NSW and better not to take chances anymore.Big yellow faced whip snake bit me on a train one time fuscus that was pretty dopey and it was painful and my hand was swollen,never been bitten by a marsh snake although i caught allot in mums wollongong backyard. Cheers colin.
Very interesting fuscus,toxicity of venom can vary between populations of snakes,my friend was bitten by a small eyed snake at coffs harbour in 72 and i told him not to worry and his hand was swollen and eventualoly it went to the limph nodes under the arm.The smalleyed snakes around sydney dont appear to be as bad,judging from the bites ive seen but i would regard them now as potentially dangerous as apparently someone died from a smalleyed bite on the north coast NSW and better not to take chances anymore.Big yellow faced whip snake bit me on a train one time fuscus that was pretty dopey and it was painful and my hand was swollen,never been bitten by a marsh snake although i caught allot in mums wollongong backyard. Cheers colin.
G
Guest
Guest
Great story fuscy!!! Thanks for sharing it mate!!!
lol, I wouldnt have bothered going to hospital. But im glad you did, it was the right decision, i think!
Funny how such small snakes can cause severe reactions.
When i was bitten by a paleheaded, i was just under 100kg, and im over 6ft. In the week after I was biten, i weighed just over 85!!!! It took a lot out of me!The snake was only a juvenile, yet it almost killed me... I think people underestimate the capabilities of the smaller elapids. They all have very potent venom, and quite often it is just as neurtoxic as the venom from a death adders. So, if the animal has a nice chew, there is the possiblity your in a lot of trouble!
Funny how such small snakes can cause severe reactions.
When i was bitten by a paleheaded, i was just under 100kg, and im over 6ft. In the week after I was biten, i weighed just over 85!!!! It took a lot out of me!The snake was only a juvenile, yet it almost killed me... I think people underestimate the capabilities of the smaller elapids. They all have very potent venom, and quite often it is just as neurtoxic as the venom from a death adders. So, if the animal has a nice chew, there is the possiblity your in a lot of trouble!
peterescue
Very Well-Known Member
Ok Brodie, back in your box,
Nice write up Fuscus, the info is always of interest, to me at least. Now about that small eyed, do you think you could get a few more shots of that.
Nice write up Fuscus, the info is always of interest, to me at least. Now about that small eyed, do you think you could get a few more shots of that.
orsm
Active Member
Glad you are ok. Will this incident stop you from picking up wild snakes in the future?
westhamsc
Very Well-Known Member
tell us another story uncle fuscus
thats gold man good to see your on track again
thats gold man good to see your on track again
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