Something to think about on pricing

[wokka]

People change their preferences for where they put their surplus dollars. As more and more charities emerge there more and more choices for descressionary spending. Individuals cant save the whole world singlehanded and so have to chose. It may be better to do one project properly and pass on the past interests to others with a new found curiosity.

 

[Waterrat]

You are very philosophical this morning wokka, you must have stayed sober last night. LOL
I agree, we have to change with times.

 

[Ramsayi]

Some of the bigger players have contributed to price drops by breeding too many animals and some also by undercutting everyone else by offering discounts.

 

[Waterrat]

You're dead right Rams, I almost forgotten.

 

[Ramsayi]

Years ago people used to take gradual steps to get into the breeding side of the hobby.A lot started out with a hatchy pair of say childreni,grew them up and bred them.Any money made in selling the young was then used to purchase hatchlings of more expensive species and the cycle continued.Prices were high but that didn't matter if you followed the above procedure. These days it seems a lot of people in the hobby want to jump straight in the deep end by purchasing adult animals with the intent of breeding them right away.

I think some of the attitude towards pricing these days also comes down to attitude given that a lot of breeders these days didn't put those initial hard yards in.

 

[wokka]

Some of the bigger players have contributed to price drops by breeding too many animals and some also by undercutting everyone else by offering discounts.

Perhaps their motive wasn't profit. I have heard one of the bigger breeders say that his aim was to make pythons affordable for all the kids to keep.

 

[Ramsayi]

Perhaps their motive wasn't profit. I have heard one of the bigger breeders say that his aim was to make pythons affordable for all the kids to keep.

I was always under the impression that people started businesses to make a profit and to maximise those profits,perhaps I was wrong.

 

[jahan]

Years ago Rams there was a 2yr waiting list just to buy
a good palm jungle,now it`s take your pick.

 

[wokka]

I was always under the impression that people started businesses to make a profit and to maximise those profits,perhaps I was wrong.

I agree thats the case with most business but it comes back to the age old arguement of weather breeding snakes is a business. If profit is a requirement of bussiness then in many cases breeding snakes is not a bussiness.

 

[Waterrat]

Perhaps their motive wasn't profit. I have heard one of the bigger breeders say that his aim was to make pythons affordable for all the kids to keep.

It sound very cute, doesn't it. I hear that from other sides of the industry too "we don't do it for the money, it's to support ....."
We ain't all stupid.

 

[snakehandler]

The large breeders have certainly contributed to the price drop, just look at thee situation with Green Tree Pythons, Albinos and Black Headed Pythons, the biggest factor was the flooding of the market with them. The hobby will survive as a hobby, like breeders of dogs, there are a large number of breeders who are in it to improve the lines they have, maintain a price and breed for the passion of it, not the money behind it. Those who are doing breeding need to remember that people getting into it will look for a cheap price as well as all the other things mentioned, follow up service, quality information etc. Over the last few years I have had a number of people tell me they are going to breed for profit....the thing they forget is the high value animals will be flooded in the market by the time they have raised their own to a size that is able to be bred from, to be successful in a business you don't follow the trends, you create them. The ones who make the money from breeding reptiles are the ones that create the trends, a good example is the albinos from Simon Stone, the Green Tree Pythons and Womas from Roy Pailes....look at the price they sold them at in the beginning and now look at the price you pay for them!


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[SYNeR]

As much as the licencing (in NSW at least -- i'm not familiar with other state) is a bit of bureaucratic nonsense, I'm actually glad it exists now.. Forcing people to obtain / pay for licences and wait for a licence before purchasing reptiles definitely takes away the impulse buying, not to mention having to find a breeder and being unable to buy reptiles straight from a pet store..

I really think this is the direction dog breeding needs to take, particularly with the prevalence of puppy mills, dog shelters, etc.
Maybe i'm going off on a bit of a tangent here, but I think this is just as important as pricing (if not more so -- animal welfare, IMO, is far more important than profitability as a breeder).

 

[snakehandler]

Dogs are very different, there are registered breeders who are held to an ethical standard, then there are backyard breeders and puppy farms. Some of the breeders for show fit into the puppy farm area too though! If you think about it, to compare the two groups (reptiles and dogs) then you will find that the majority of people in the reptile world are the same as the backyard breeders, some of the "professional" breeders are like puppy farms, and no breeder in reptiles are required to meet any ethical standard.....just look at the massive amount of inbreeding being done in the reptile world, perhaps we should look at how disastrous that was for dogs such as german shepherds and many others! Talking to a number of vets they are starting to see neurological problems and other issues that are directly linked to the extent of inbreeding and a small genetic pool from which we are working with!


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[Waterrat]

The ones who make the money from breeding reptiles are the ones that create the trends, a good example is the albinos from Simon Stone, the Green Tree Pythons and Womas from Roy Pailes....look at the price they sold them at in the beginning and now look at the price you pay for them!

So, can you give us some particular examples of the trends they created? How does their price drop differentiate them from others? Or are saying they created the trend of price dropping? Little confusing.

 

[wokka]

It sound very cute, doesn't it. I hear that from other sides of the industry too "we don't do it for the money, it's to support ....."
We ain't all stupid.

Perhaps not stupid but definitely cynical. Hes now moved on to saving Tassy Devils. Do you thinks that is to make money also!

 

[Waterrat]

Perhaps not stupid but definitely cynical. Hes now moved on to saving Tassy Devils. Do you thinks that is to make money also!

I was referring to someone else actually. It's a common "feel good - make impression" phrase.

 

[mysnakesau]

......
Now for my biggest pet peeve ................ Those that try to make a quick buck of their excess animals.

A scenario that is played over time and time again is where a hobbyist has produced some offspring, has a look online ans sees they are selling for (let's just say) $100 ea so a brainstorm says "I will sell mine for $80 ea and sell them all, quickly".

Sure, this strategy works. Who doesn't want a bargain right ?

The problem is that person has just set the new "price" for that animal because those selling theirs for $100 can't sell theirs so they often have to match the price to move their offspring. ......

Its ashame that it goes this way. It teaches ppl nothing about being responsible for a pet. If they pay a minimal amount for a snake, what is the likelihood that this animal won't receive the treatment it deserves. I hear many pet owners say its not worth taking a $40 snake to the vet when it gets sick. Just throw it away and go get another one - that is the attitude that arrises from having prices come down like they are.

My sister for one, has been proudly picking up bargains and has now had mites, twice, in her small collection within a space of 6 months or so, and recently losing a newly acquired animal which gave its mites to her existing collection. I am not saying anyone is at fault here, but it does pay, for buyers to do their homework and chose their source wisely. Don't buy, willy-nilly, just because its cheap for what it is and you just have to have it. If you want an animal that is well bred, and come from a breeder who cares well for their animals, then be prepared to pay that bit more for them. Be patient and wait for the best animal instead of having to have something right now because you won't get another for that price. You will, and you will most likely stumble across better animals in better condition. Good things come to those who wait.

 

[Jeffa]

Because of current economic times, I do not see people making large ammounts of money in this hobby unless you get an albino BHP, woma, Gtp, Roughie or whatever there is not an albino of. If you manage to finally get a true 2 year old male Blue G.T.P or some Oenpeliensis or create a stunning new morph (that has no issues) you will be there to make some good money, but only for a short time, These mite phased gtps and yellows seem to be the new trend but quite a few breeders own them, so when they are released another possible influx of morphs will hit the market close together therefore cutting the price.
Most of us are doing it tough in todays GFC or whatever you want call it, why would a business selling reptiles not feel the pinch also?
As a hobbiest it encourages me to afford cheaper yet quality reptiles. If you are a breeder who relies on an income from sales then I say to you, if you make some good money from the reptiles then good on you but save your pennies.
I can see why but do not agree if people are crossing species or throwing mixes together to try and jag a new morph so that money can be made (or so they think). Times are tough people.

 

[snakehandler]

, a good example is the albinos from Simon Stone, the Green Tree Pythons and Womas from Roy Pailes....look at the price they sold them at in the beginning and now look at the price you pay for them!

WR I already mentioned them, not being cynical, realistic. Its like any business, get in, develop a trend...GTPs are a great example, make money, get out......a few years ago you struggled to find GTPs under 8000, now you can pick them for for 800-900 (usually 1200).


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[Waterrat]

WR I already mentioned them, not being cynical, realistic. Its like any business, get in, develop a trend...GTPs are a great example, make money, get out......a few years ago you struggled to find GTPs under 8000, now you can pick them for for 800-900 (usually 1200).


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I am not being cynical either and certainly agree that it's the case but I fail to see what trend those men set up. Simon retired and as far as I know his retirement has nothing to do with falling prices and Roy is still in the business. Did Simon and Roy made any progressive roads in the GTP business? As far as I know neither of the two were responsible for the price crash 3 years ago ....... maybe I am missing something.