Something to think about on pricing

Discussion in 'Australian Snakes' started by graffix, Dec 31, 2011.

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  1. cement

    cement Subscriber Subscriber APS Veteran

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    With reference to Simons albinoes, I am pretty sure he means that by being the first to produce them made him a wedge, It then became trendy to have one...which is where his wedge came from.
     
  2. KaotikJezta

    KaotikJezta Very Well-Known Member

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    I had a situation at work where some people came in and wanted a baby blue tongue. They had set all their enclosure up ready, the young boy it was for was lovely. We had one baby out in the back off display area as it had been attacked by its cage mate before I started working there, and had lost a fair bit of tail. It was a lovely little blue tongue. As soon as the boy saw it his face lit up, he took it so gently, didn't care a bit about the tail, it was just his new little friend. The boss let them have it for $45 (not that much of a bargain for bluies, but it is a shop) and they were stoked, they would have happily paid full price anyway. That whole sale made my day as I knew they were going to look after it and the little boy would love it and so begins his trip into the wonderful world of reptiles. Sometimes cheap is good for the animal and the human. As for everyone saying they would pay more and only buy from established breeders, were does that leave all of us that may have years of experience keeping (more than some respected breeders in some cases) but have not yet ventured into the joys and heartbreaks of breeding, does this mean we should just not do it, should we price the same as the big boys and get overlooked anyway, what do we do. Yes I want to breed some of mine, not for the cash, for the excitement of seeing what is produced, what colours, patterns, variation, the experience, the sense of achievement, the education, all those things. I have a pair of Gammons coming shortly and have a male here, I will be looking forward to breeding them later as they are not too common, they sell for a pittance, relatively speaking, but I think they are beautiful snakes. But some of the comments could lead me to think I should give up before I even start. My own animals have ranged from very cheap to expensive for what it was. They are all special in there own way, some for what breeding will produce, others for the enjoyment they give me as pets, and others because I have taken them out of bad situations. If it gets to the stage where I am getting too many for them to all be in spacious accomodation I will stop. I would prefer to give my animals away to someone like that young boy than sell them off to people that want to make a quick buck. You can't judge everyone that starts breeding and selling the same. I guess my point is, a lot of new breeders are forced to sell for cheap if everyone is going to avoid them when they are starting out. Just because they are new at it doesn't mean their animals aren't from quality lines.
     
  3. Waterrat

    Waterrat Almost Legendary

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    Sure thing. But when it comes to greens where have the two gentleman set any trends. Snakehandler did use GTPs as an example. Making it bog and moving onto something else is certainly a good alternative but that doesn't constitute a trend set within the discipline.
     
  4. snakehandler

    snakehandler Very Well-Known Member

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    WR, cement is right...I am not saying they made the price crash, but they bred animals which people wanted, paid good money for and then backed off once the market was flooded just before the prices dropped.....certainly Roy is in business, but look at his breeders and breeding stock, they alter to maximize the gaps in the market. Simon retired, but he bred the only albino carpets around for a long time, now the prices have dropped. Both these men read the market and gave the industry what it wanted at a price which made it profitable, now there is a much smaller return, its the way all markets go....most of the markets have this trend.

    If you go back further into the industry and look at what people used to pay before breeding and regulations.....in the days where is was truly a hobby.....


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  5. cement

    cement Subscriber Subscriber APS Veteran

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    Ahh yes that's true, but I am pretty sure that he firstly did it for money, and not as a loyal disciple.Hence the chess playing and remaining one step ahead at all times.

    I don't know how the greens fit in.
     
  6. Waterrat

    Waterrat Almost Legendary

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    I understand all that. The same goes for few other people we know who were heavily involved in breeding and diversified, I think I mentioned few names earlier in this thread. I just couldn't see where the greens came into it either.

    It's not hard to create demand / market with something new and pretty but realistically, unless you're into designer morphing, jagging or albinising (lol), you are on the outside. Gavin will be the last man standing, bringing something new and pure into the hobby.
     
  7. longqi

    longqi Very Well-Known Member

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    Greens were always a big bucks reptile
    Some people did very well out of them
    After a series of events their price plummeted
    They will only get even cheaper now but will probably stabilise around $500/600

    Exactly the same thing will happen with every reptile

    Example X breeds a morph after 10 years planning
    proves to be hereditary and kindacute
    sells 10 hatchies
    those 10 get huge dollars
    next years sells 20 same result
    next year 50 same price

    Following year the first 10 are bred by someone else releasing 50 onto the market
    next year 150 hit market
    next year 400
    price starts dropping

    look at ads for jungles from even 5 years ago
    anything half decent was $600
    same snake now $250/300

    Its just supply and demand
    same as any business

    but quality will always sell
     
  8. Jeffa

    Jeffa Well-Known Member

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    Hope so Michael. Money or no money, if he can bring oenpellis into captivity sucessfully than he deserves to make money, but at the end of the day it will be only for a short time in a market that is not as it's strongest.
    I do hope that down the track money can be made by breeders that have a passion about the health of an animal as opposed to something new regardless of the wellbeing.
     
  9. Renenet

    Renenet Very Well-Known Member

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    That's a lovely story, KJ. It's experiences like that that make all the pains of retail worth it. I hope the little boy and his bluey have many happy years together.

    I asked a similar question earlier that hasn't been answered, as far as I've noticed. I get what's being said about breeders undercutting the market eventually leading to lower prices for all. But as new breeders with no reputation, you can't charge the same as the more established breeders. So what indeed do we do? I'm not breeding snakes yet but plan to start in 2013, probably with a pair of stimmies, so this is something I'm interested in.
     
  10. Waterrat

    Waterrat Almost Legendary

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    Reneret, new breeders have to follow the same track old breeders followed. Get to know your species, it's requirements, learn by listening to others and reading, take notes and learn from mistakes. You will not only gain experience but you will find a great satisfaction in what you're doing. Reputation and respect has to be earned, it can't be bought or obtained by making shortcuts. A genuine interest, enthusiasm, perseverance, believing in what you're doing and an attitude to challenge the knockers are the main essentials. JMO
     
  11. wokka

    wokka Guest

    You dont have to breed snakes to gain a reputation. Participation in herp societies, forums and the like show potential buyer what sort of person you are and the extent of your knowledge. One thing i would look for when buying is a local supplier with consistent available which should translate to after sales service.
     
  12. Renenet

    Renenet Very Well-Known Member

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    I get you. I've got no problem with putting in the hard work, it's just that after reading Graffix's post I'm a bit confused about how to price. I never wanted to make big bucks out of breeding - I'm not sure it's even possible anymore. For me it's all about the learning experience of breeding the snakes, incubating the eggs, the joy of watching the neonates hatch and then raising them into hungry, healthy hatchies. I intended to set my prices lower than average to reflect my novice status, but I don't want to be undercutting anyone either.

    I guess what I'm trying to ask is, what is a fair way to price for new breeders without causing a crash in the market?

    Good point. Gulp! After 1367 posts I probably have some kind of reputation already.
     
  13. waruikazi

    waruikazi Legendary

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    You're thinking about it waaaay too much. Don't worry about the other sellers, they aren't going to worry about you!

    Set a price that you think is fair and see how you go.

     
  14. Renenet

    Renenet Very Well-Known Member

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    You're probably right. I have a poor habit of doing that. :D
     
  15. zulu

    zulu Very Well-Known Member

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    Thats how it goes,breeders before you have already lined their pockets,not like theyve done you a community service or something,you owe them nothing theyve left you the slops. :)
     
  16. cement

    cement Subscriber Subscriber APS Veteran

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    If a clutch of stimmies crashes the market then we are all in big trouble!
    Unless you breed something that has bells and whistles (and a twitch) you will probably be selling to newbies anyway. Going in a bit cheaper is fine, you may actually sell your snakes, learn a bit as you go, and not end up a slave to your ever burgeoning collection!

    The best thing is to selectively breed what you think you can manage, If you put 4 pairs together and end up with 80 -100 eggs all of a sudden you need more room in the incubator and house, more egg tubs, more hatchling racks and tubs, more heating, more food more regularly, more water bowls, more cleaning gear, and a lot more time.
    It IS work.... a different type, but still work. And if they are a bottom end snake, well good luck.
     
  17. Mace699

    Mace699 Active Member

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    Sammie and I are in a pickle about this very issue, we have for the firs time successfully bred a healthy clutch of MD which are due to hatch in just under a month now. we are of the opinion or snakes are absolutely beautiful, nothing that stands out in regards to patterns, nice markings and colours but would not say there are many pure MD's that look much different. bar maybe 2 or three i have seen on here occasionally they all look very similar. back to my point though im of the opinion that every one should own a MD the most placid snake anyone could ever ask for have never met an angry one yet. having said that price them to low although it doesn't bother me what we sell them for you dont want to price them so low it puts other breeders out, at the same time i dont want to price them so high that none of them will sell. i have seen them for sale for $50 or less if you buy more than one. i think personally at this price the people who are looking for a quick cheap deal will snap them up with little thought put into care or looking for the snake thats right for them. so back to my point what would a reasonable price i myself can say i would happily pay 150-200 for an established MD but what is your opinion.
     
  18. Exotic_Doc

    Exotic_Doc Well-Known Member

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    I honestly dont understand why everyone wants to breed snakes now. Just sounds like the old ' Im going to let my dog have a litter so the kids can watch puppies being born'
     
  19. mysnakesau

    mysnakesau Almost Legendary

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    that is a nicer excuse than thinking you're going to make a fortune breeding and selling snakes.
     
  20. feathergrass

    feathergrass Active Member

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    being new to reps and having read hungrily heaps and heaps of stuff i have decided i only wanted 1 beardie not two cos i didnt want them to breed although i wouldve loved for Buddha to have a friend.have changed my mind about future goals too.My next rep will be a childs cos its small but my future end goal is to own a green tree python because i personally think that they are the MOST beautiful snake ever.i dont want to bred any reps i want and will have three reps ( snakes have to wait til i move out of home as my mother is terrified of reps and is only just handling having a beardie in the house lol.
    BUTas with the Beardie i WILL buy my chosen type of snake as a hatchy ( personally i think they grow to know you and trust you). and i will have their homes set up for months BEFORE i settle on where and whom and how i buy them off regardless of the prices..in all honnesty unless my beardie or future snakey come up to me and say * for gods sake i need to get laid* or * hells bells my biological clock is ticking let me have babies* they wont ever see or meet another of their kind as i know i wouldnt be able to sell their babies cos i would fall in love with them all and be more likely to think about selling my teenager..i think price of an animal doesnt matter as slong as what they buyer realises you get what you pay for whether its a pure bargin on beautiful creature from a reputable place or ripped off from a reputable place or a bargin or ripped off from a not so reputable place buying and selling is a rick no matter what you buy just cos you pay say 3k for a nice looking creature does not mean its garunteed to have no defects...we paid a helll of a lot for a pure white german shepard darn think had mental issues and went slowly insane then got a white one from the pound with no papers and she was the most beautiful creature ever not sure i had a point oh yeah i did has anyone asked the creatures if they wanna get laid get fat look like they wanna burst and then have their kids taken off them?
     
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