Why are reptile enthusiasts in Australia not allowed to keep exotic reptiles

Discussion in 'Australian Snakes' started by Cunninghamskinks, Apr 8, 2014.

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  1. MR_BALMAIN69

    MR_BALMAIN69 Not so new Member

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    NOT ONE EXOTIC IS WORTH ONE AUSSIE REPTILE !!!!

    To the people keeping exotics at the moment , remember to give your jealous mates a lot of love , their usually the ones who report you !!

    No need to go into a long dialogue it's a simple NO.
     
  2. moosenoose

    moosenoose Legendary

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    The Yanks don't care...they've got just about everything. Just because you grow apples doesn't mean you can't enjoy eating a....a pineapple :D
     
  3. Sean_L

    Sean_L Not so new Member

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    Thats one of the things that bothers me the most, the old 'its already happening illegally, if we made it legal then there would be more control and less danger'.
    Thats such a naive view of the world! The sort of people that are already doing it illegally arent going to suddenly turn around and get a licence and start on the road to being the perfect citizen. Thats the biggest load Ive ever heard! If you make it legal all it will do is make it easier for those importing and dealing illegally to continue to do so.
    Taking a step like that would be little more than capitulating to criminals. You know what, everyone already speeds on the highway, I see it all the time, maybe if we raise the speed limit to 120 everyone will just drive safely at that speed. HA! Those that were speeding beforehand will just drive 130. Its inevitable. Some people are just numbskulls, and always will be, especially those that are already blatently endangering this country's wildlife for nothing more than their own greed.

    i have no idea about the current punishments but in my opinion if youre caught with exotics you should be fine at least $3000 for EVERY animal and your licence suspended for 5 years. If youre caught again you should get jail time and never be allowed to keep any wildlife again. Period.

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    And thats the weakest metaphor Ive ever heard. WE GROW ENOUGH PRODUCE TO SUPPLY AN ENTIRE FRUIT SHOP! (metaphorically speaking of course, im not actually talking about fruit) And youre still so greedy and self absorbed you want more! Leave the country. Please, for the good of everyone else here.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2014
  4. wokka

    wokka Guest

    Jamie as you know i used to operate a licenced quarantine facitity and have worn the expense of extablishing import and export protocols. My issue is that by not allowing legal movement of animals they drive it under the table and in doing so have no idea what is going on.If you do ( or dont do) the same thing the same thing happens! Making legal import and export illegal isn't working so something needs to change!
     
  5. champagne

    champagne Well-Known Member

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    have you actually stopped and looked into what you are talking about? it has been proven that giving people a legal avenue to do things actually does decrease the illegal activities...

    I don't want designer exotics in this country but if there was legal ways to bring them in at least the reptiles would be shipped in much better conditions and we could quarantine and screen new arrivals.
     
  6. So with that reasoning maybe we should also legalise the importation of heroin, seeming as it is already happening and everyone opposed to it has there head in the sand.
     
  7. Focus

    Focus Not so new Member

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    I've never quite understood why this subject always becomes so contentious. Exotics can't be legalised for the myriad of reasons that people have pointed out, and really the only reason to bring them in is because "I want one."

    It's true that they are here already (so all the "i want one" people can pretty much go for it I anyway I guess), but not in the numbers that would result if they were legalised, making concerns about diseases and escapees valid in my opinion. And [MENTION=1228]Pythoninfinite[/MENTION] has pointed out the stresses on the wild populations that the trade of exotics contributes to.

    Having said that, what on earth does "Australian reptiles are the best!" mean? At what? Arm-wrestling? Chemistry? We should be be absolutely grateful for chance to keep our natives, but "best" has no objective meaning. And people saying that exotics are ugly must have very selective "Aussie only" tastes. Just because they shouldn't be here doesn't mean we can't appreciate that some are spectacular.

    Be grateful for what we have, and appreciate what others have. Why all the drama?
     
  8. Sean_L

    Sean_L Not so new Member

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    Only in the eyes of those oblivious to whats actually right and wrong.

    Making something legal or illegal doesnt make it any less right or wrong. If they legalised the harvesting of old growth forests (wchich they do when they can get away with it) then more people would do it legally and subsiquently there will be less illegal activity by default, because those that were doing it before in secret are now legally allowed to (same or more activity, but its now legal, so therefore there's less 'illegal' activity).
    BUT ITS STILL WRONG TO DO IT.
    People that can hardly look after themselves (not saying that you can't in particular) should not be allowed to harbour exotics that can do so much potential harm in the wrong hands. Risking exotics of any quantity in the country is WRONG, therefore, whether its legal or not.... whether more or less people are committing a crime..... there will still be more people doing something WRONG, if its legalised.
     
  9. Yep Warwick, I think you have a better understanding than most about the protocols of import & export of creatures, and I also agree that if we keep on doing what we've always done, we'll keep on getting what we've always got... which is this standoff and continuing tensions between the practical and philosophical. But what we do have here now is a system that makes management relatively easy - if you have an exotic and you get caught, there is no question that you are breaking the law - easy for the authorities. I'm making no value judgement either way about this - it's just the way it is, and I can't see the authorities wanting to complicate their tasks any more than this by having to prove provenance to establish legality.

    I can make a list which more or less demonstrates my opinions on matters exotic...

    1. I would love to have some of more beautiful critters from other parts of the world - Chameleons, some of the incredible Vipers for example. I'm old, I'm no longer a stamp collector, and I've learned to rationalise my choices about these things. No pythons - we have more than enough here already.
    2. Presumeably, by selecting species carefully, the seed animals could be assuredly captive bred from disease free facilities. Thus it would be fairly easy to put up the protocols needed to manage import & quarantine (this is what was done for the bird imports in the 90s, although that operated on an "all in, all out" principle - if one bird got sick or returned a positive blood test, all birds in that stream were destroyed). The cost of the first animals out of the system would be considerable - probably far more than illegally imported animals, which undoubtedly would continue to come in and blend with the legal stuff, as happens with birds... I don't believe that allowing legal imports would slow illegal imports much at all, so disease potential would remain, could even escalate in the short term. Having said that however, I'm not sure what disease threats actually exist - we all assume that do for reptiles as they do for birds, but the bird thing is different - the potential for catastrophic disease outbreaks in birds, especially poultry, is a real threat...
    3. OK, so I've got my Panther Chameleons and my Eyelash Vipers out of quarantine, and I've undertaken to import antivenom every 6 months at my own expense in case of accidents (a licence condition...). But my mate, who envies me knows someone who knows someone who will sell him the same animals (his tastes are identical to mine) for a third of the price I paid for my legal animals. My animals are captive bred and pose no threat to wild populations, his were picked up in some market in Thailand, obviously illegally collected wild-caught. The question is - once you open the floodgates, and demand escalates astronomically in the first few years, how do you manage the environmentally sound supply of captive-bred animals to satisfy a very big initial market?

    The problem is not just one of what keepers think they want here, it also goes to the (almost impossible) management of the international wildlife trade. How many members here would harshly judge someone they see wearing boots made from the skins of pythons or some unfortunate lizard species? Do they stop to think that killing those animals for the fashion trade is just as damaging for the species as making a live example available for them to keep in their loungeroom? Environmentally, it may as well be dead, and in some cases it would be better off dead.

    So, I see a very few, mostly selfish advantages in allowing the market for exotic reptiles to develop more in this country, but there are many more reasons, both domestic and elsewhere, why the status quo with it's self-limiting nature, should remain as it is now.

    Jamie
     
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  10. butters

    butters Well-Known Member

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    If they were legalized my only interests would be in New Zealand, Madagascan and New Caledonian geckos, tortoises and chameleons.
    All of which are under pressure in some way in their natural habitat.

    Why these species? Mostly because there isn't really a close native equivalent and if we do it's not in the hobby. Closest we have to things like a star tortoise is a shingleback. Not really the same.

    So even if they were able to be legally imported I would be less inclined to get any purely on moral grounds because I may be contributing to their decline in the wild. If I could get animals of known provenance that were captive bred legally I would do so.
    In reality I could probably get all of my wishes now, in Australia, through illegal means but the simple fact that's it's illegal stops me from doing so.
    I'm happy with what we do have but that doesn't mean I don't occasionally think " what if".
     
  11. Merkinball

    Merkinball Not so new Member

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    There have been a lot of very passionate posts on this subject, from both sides of the argument, and there have been many good points. It is quite obvious that the people on this forum and those replying to this post are very passionate about reptiles and would love the opportunity to own one of many extraordinary exotic species. The issue I have with potentially legalising exotics is this, and it is sparked by a post I saw today on Facebook. We as a collective whole have no representation as a hobby, and we are reaching a point where breeding of reptiles is becoming both a business and a fad of sorts. The post on facebook spoke of pricing of Bearded Dragons and the number of them now saturating pet stores etc. to the point of them being worth next to nothing and discarded in whichever way possible. So the point I am trying to make is that as the hobby grows and people begin to breed more and more animals (intentionally or not) we see more and more animals struggling to find homes, or mistreated or worse. So without any sort of national guidelines or rules and regulations that are enforced, the hobby in my opinion would not be able to cope with an influx of desirable exotics being bred hand over fist to meet demand to a point that animals begin to suffer at the hands of those within the hobby. In my opinion the hobby is almost at a point that we will need a collective direction, bringing more species to the table is not going to help this, and should really be at the back of our minds if we want the hobby to move forward sustainably, and most importantly with the health and wellbeing of our animals as paramount.
     
  12. Retic

    Retic Almost Legendary

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    Yes the 'Aussie reptiles are the best' thing always makes me laugh. Every country has wonderful beautiful reptiles and it is fantastic to have access to them all, my personal favourites are from South and Central America but I dont feel the need to denigrate other reptiles to somehow boost them in my mind.

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    Jamie yes I think we must move in different circles or of course used to as I dont live there anymore.
    I certainly dont support the collection and laundering of reptiles, I have no WC reptiles in my collection and try to avoid buying them. Almost everything is available as captive bred nowadays although they tend to have a much more relaxed attitude to it in Europe.
     
  13. Klaery

    Klaery Well-Known Member

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    I have a few strong feelings on the topic but Jamie has already covered everything I have said and more. I was wearing my finger out hitting the like button!

    I would be the first the criticize it, well second after you I guess :p (even though I have an f2 from those animals chewing my shirt as I type this). That big import was a while ago though and although there is still a push there has not been legal importation of parrots for some time that I know of?

    Talking inconsistencies though fish are what really scare me! I don't know what it is like now but only a few years ago (when I was around it a bit) it was loose... Very loose. I have heard it is tightening up but geeze, by what yardstick.
     
  14. Cypher69

    Cypher69 Well-Known Member

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    I've never understood the need for drastic, extreme & exaggerated comparisons to try & validate a point.
     
  15. borntobnude

    borntobnude Guest

    Although, it works for ME!! :)

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  16. That's OK, I never understood the notion that the fact an illegal activity was occurring was sound and reasonable logic to legalise it.
     
  17. champagne

    champagne Well-Known Member

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    Lack of intelligence is generally the need.
     
  18. Retic

    Retic Almost Legendary

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    Has anyone used that as a reason to legalise it ?

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  19. Post 64 and 65 were alluding to it.

    In all seriousness other then the guise of "better control" and the "I want" attitude of a few reptile keepers is there any real pro's of legalising exotics? Because if there isn't there are many many negatives.
     
  20. bdav70

    bdav70 Guest

    Yepp everyone has covered it but think rabbits, foxes, cane toads and camels in the outback and think of the damage exotic snakes could inflict if the conditions were right on many of our small marsupials and bird life who haven't evolved with such predators around and are more a less defenceless. You can really get a perfect storm brewing kind of like how large pythons flourish in the Everglades of Florida in America and become a huge and dangerous problem


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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